[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Kenny are you causing trouble old fruit? 

[kenny jones]

  feling that way inclined, if it 1 in a billion chance of killing someone it a risk   

[kenny jones]

Cordoning off on normal domestics properties =not practical .

Health and safety is down to common sense,  people died on the London underground bombings because health and safety puts the people in charge at risk of prosecution,  forcing them to make the wrong decision .

Window cleaning is not rocket science,  use your common sense and everything will be fine .

Forced over the top health and safety will ruin the industry .

The worst 2 words in the window cleaning library "common sense", you might have oodles of it, but trying telling that to one of your lads who have flunked in school and end up working for a window cleaning company.  They need hard and fast simple rules. to protect others and themselves, Health and safety and mr willis courses or iosh courses will help, not imaginary common sense.

[Bryan_Dolby]

Sorry

Wrong way round

95% not dropping pole

Bryan

[keyser soze]

i personally think that until the national figures show that using a extended water fed pole is an obvious danger to the public . then cordoning off areas would not happen.... which lets face it means shutting streets down in some cases.. it costs a fortune to shut the rd down . which in turn makes mr jones house in the town centre not viable...personally  i think i'll wait for hover boards to be invented for us to use ......because that will come first . too many do gooders imo

[trevor perry]

Cordoning off on normal domestics properties =not practical .

Health and safety is down to common sense,  people died on the London underground bombings because health and safety puts the people in charge at risk of prosecution,  forcing them to make the wrong decision .

Window cleaning is not rocket science,  use your common sense and everything will be fine .

Forced over the top health and safety will ruin the industry .

The worst 2 words in the window cleaning library "common sense", you might have oodles of it, but trying telling that to one of your lads who have flunked in school and end up working for a window cleaning company.  They need hard and fast simple rules. to protect others and themselves, Health and safety and mr willis courses or iosh courses will help, not imaginary common sense.

Kenny i am not arguing that training is not needed, there are many aspects about the impact course that are excellent and can do lots for both individuals and our industry, when i sit down with andrew next week i will be talking about many of the good aspects of his course but i will also be putting my opinions on how i think it could be improved, some of my opinions may be wrong as i feel his current opinion on courdoning off is wrong and i will raise my concerns over this.
 Me and andrew have had quite a few differences of opinion in the past but i still admire that he invited me on his course to give my opinion, he has had quite a bit of flack upto now some of it i feel deserved other bits not deserved but i feel if everyone can give their opinion on this matter we can get a balanced view and find a workable solution.
   I am glad that Bryan dolby has added his comment from the federation as they too get alot of flack when they come on the forums but i value their input and are there to help our industry i believe they introduced the IOSH training for members which is a valuable eye opener for people to attend who maybe dont realise our responsibilites as regards health and safety

[JSMC]

done my iosh managing safely years ago and year after studied NEBOSH. IOSH is a basic understanding of H&S and a good little course.

Loads of training providers all over the country will do IOSH courses over 2 days.

[CleanClear]

Sorry

Wrong way round

95% not dropping pole

Bryan

Bryan could you narrow this down a bit if possible. When the pole came down/was dropped how big was the pole or what was its errected height and where where you (or the pole)?

[stuart mc]

the chances of a pole snapping or falling is a massive risk end off.

What wills etc are doing is trying to educate on thick window cleaners who ask silly questions like this

learn English before calling members thick please.

[concept]

Sorry

Wrong way round

95% not dropping pole

Bryan

So you will drop your poleat least onc a day?

[kenny jones]

the chances of a pole snapping or falling is a massive risk end off.

What wills etc are doing is trying to educate on thick window cleaners who ask silly questions like this

learn English before calling members thick please.

Remove that toilet roll badge before commenting please

[AuRavelling79]

feling that way inclined, if it 1 in a billion chance of killing someone it a risk  

kenny jones

[stuart mc]

the chances of a pole snapping or falling is a massive risk end off.

What wills etc are doing is trying to educate on thick window cleaners who ask silly questions like this

learn English before calling members thick please.

Remove that toilet roll badge before commenting please

Nope

[Total shine cleaning services]

bottom line is we all have a duty of care towards the public, ourselves, employees etc etc, The health and safety topics always get blown out of proportion and some on here get quite spiteful towards others for daring to mention it, bottom line is to minimise risk is it not..? most of the rules that are being implied do seem to be born out of common sense, I see window cleaners quite often taking undue risks on a weekly basis but to say it will never happen to me is no grounds or evidence not to enhance your skills by working in a safer more controlled environment, a big debate on cordoning off, sometimes almost impossible to do but you can create more of a natural lanyard by working out of hours, shop fronts,we tend to use a trolley rather than trail a hose across paths often dropping the pole down if a member of the public appears, puts more time on the job I know.! getting on and off flat roofs is a big concern and I think a no no especially if you employ, it's easier than you think to mis step onto the ladder and you are usually carrying equipment the same time, the sooner that someone comes up with a flat roof clamping idea the better, even then if I had an employee going up a clamped ladder they would still need a harness and a rope grab to minimise the risk, poles being dropped, the greater the height then the greater the momentum coming down, i think it is a controllable risk upto 2nd storey but anything can happen to anyone at any time so to completely eradicate risk to others then condoning off if you can is the safest thing to do, remember most of this is a grey area until you actually have the accident and it's the mindset of some which is the biggest risk of all..!

graham