[pjulk]

I changed over to WFP last year and think its a great way to clean windows.

I use WFP for 90% of my work the other 10% still done by ladders and will be for the forseable future as these are just not pratical to clean with WFP.

About 50% of my work i WFP the whole house.
But just lately i have been think to myself with the cold weather that i clean there windows but i doubt its drying so they would have wet windows all day.

So i have been doing more downstairs by hand just so there not left wet and i dont need to take as much water with me so a bit more room in van.

Once the warmer weathers here again i will go back to WFP everything.

But when i changed over i did this because of the safety aspect, But im not knocking ladder as i still use them and will continue to do so.
But if the health and safety people did enforce the wahd i already have a system in place to use

Paul

[Sir Squeaky]

squeeky Im not having a dig but you ort to get out more wake up and smell the coffee 

Ho ho!

If you want all that extra bother morning and evening, and the problems that are highlighted here 20 times a day....go for it.

I spoke to Ian Giles the other day, and he couldn't honestly say it was definately worth it for the round I have.

Not for me. I've got an easy job, and that's the way it's staying.

Rog.

[brett walker]

I have wfp'd upstairs and downstairs definately quicker and earn more money, i find it better on the bigger houses.

I must be honest it gets on my nerves a bit carrying a lot of water about somtimes life seems a lot easier just to chuck the ladder on and the trad kit, because of all the wfp teething problems.  I would never rule out not using a ladder as i do not think they will ever be banned as its been said before different tools for different jobs.

Brett

[sunshine windows]

   Also cleaning ground floor with an 18 ft pole is a bit of chore and so is carrying a shorter 4 ft pole along with the 18 ft one; so is swapping them over.  Remember my round is mainly bottom-end residential; terraced houses and semis; and my system is entry-level.
     

tosh, please excuse my ignorance, but what is an entry level system. Thinking long and hard about investing in wfp but can't really justify spending out that much as i've only got a small round which is scattered everywhere at the moment. 

[Moderator David@stives]

For those of you who think there are no Health and safety issues with using ladders.

Why is Ian Greenwood doing a seminar at Windex

Titled

"How the window cleaner comply withe the WAHR"

To be held at windex 16th march at 10.30am.

I am interested in my business so it is my business to be there and here it from the horses mouth.

Dave

[John Conroy]

Window cleaners will over the years found out that WFP is good for there business yes the law plays apart but it will be case of they get to hear about it thought a friend or fellow window cleaner, that’s its quicker, saver, faster and will earn them a good or better living for there family, so it might take long for the penny to drop, but the sea change is hear WFP is the future of window cleaning

[John Conroy]

They got big surprise coming new regs regaring the use of ladders in weeks

What's the inside information regarding new ladder regs then?

The only info I can get is that the HSE are updating their safe working practice guidelines for window cleaners in line with the TWAHD regs of last April - as far as I'm aware, we're not getting new regs, but I may be wrong.

They are giving you guidance for window cleaners so that you can comply with the working at height regulations when using ladders, (because of the confusion in the industry, which we can also see from this debate) if you work with in theses guidance you are complying, if you don’t then they can use the working at height regulation to take you to court, don’t say you have not been warned because working at height regulation are law and companies have already be prosecuted under the working at height  regulations.

[mattstanley]

Mattstanley quote:

Insert Quote  
I don't doubt it works, but do the customers see you doing it?  Mine would wonder what I was doing

Matt, you're in the 'interested but frightened category' of window cleaner who wants to convert to WFP.

Ignore the regs.  Who cares?  They're not policed anyway; until you have an accident at least.

If you want to dip your toe into the WFP world, get a Shurflo back-pack.  Don't listen to anyone else.  Shurflo back-pack at £250 tops, cheaper from e-bay (£160).

With all the other stuff it should amount to around £600 in total.  Within two months, you'll have paid for your expenditure and from 'clean four', you'll be flying round and each month your purchase will be repeatedly paying for itself.

Just start out doing 'tops only' and use David of St Ives's WFP explanation letter for your customers.  (In the documents to upload section).  I swear I have only lost one customer out of 350(ish) due to WFP, and the one I lost was not due to shoddy work-man-ship.

Not only will you be cleaning faster, but you can work for longer.  Six hours of hard ladder work used to 'knacker' me.  But I can work eight hours, still tired, but not bolloxed! I'm sure you know what I mean.

Hi Tosh

I meant my customers would wonder what I was doing if I dipped my T-Bar into a puddle - not if I was using wfp.

I have a system based around a backpack - I've discussed this with you many times on here and the DIY site - and I want to use it ultimately to do tops only but I'm holding off at the moment, except where it contributes greatly to my safety, as we are facing water shortages in the South East and I'm pretty sure, unless we get some significant rain, we are going to be stopped from using wfp (in which case it will be back to ladders as wfp won't be practicable in the circumstances - we'll have to adapt as someone said earlier).

Matt.

[macc]

matt. how can they ban us from using wfp if thats how you earn a living. its a human right to earn a living.

not sure about others, im working. 

[mattstanley]

I'm only repeating what was said by a water company last year that if there was a full drought order (ie stand pipes etc) wfp would be banned - think about it, how are you going to make pure water anyway if your only source of water is from stand pipes in the road?  We'll have no choice but to fill a bucket up each day, if we want to earn money.

I'm not being a doom-monger - in Kent, all we hear on the radio and on the TV is that our reserves are the lowest they have ever been.  As I see it, if there is a full drought order, I will have to put my wfp away and use ladders full time again - I won't be breaking the law as wfp will not be a practicable alternative to using ladders in the circumstances.  Either that, or I'll clean downstairs only inside and out or something - I'll adapt to keep some money coming in.

I'm not worrying about it as wfp is not the only way to earn money cleaning windows.

[gaza]

SO IF I GO UP LADDERS and have a fall my mrs can sue the water board ?) because Icarnnt use the safer method due to their incompetance to provide water?
 
 better not tell the mrs{she would be at the bottom shaking them}


   gaza

[Sir Squeaky]

matt. how can they ban us from using wfp if thats how you earn a living. its a human right to earn a living.

not sure about others, im working. 

Well I could say the same about my work with ladders...I'm paying my way.
That's why they won't stop me.

I could see their point about polers though.
You guys use more water than the African rainforests see in a day. It's wrong.

Another thing to put me off it.

[Paul Forster]

Whilst not a window cleaner (I do grounds maint and pressure cleaningand pest control) i use ladders regularly in the course of my grounds maintenace business.

I am fully aware of the WAHL.  Customers will not pay  £300 for a cheery picker to be brought in for say the reduction of a 45' conifer or cutting of a 10' hedge. Instead it is a job for the triple laders tied at the top and with a rojak at the botom or a set of platform steps used with a ladder mat.

The H and S will never ban ladders as many jobs eg tree surgery or painting and decorating canot ecenomicly be done any other way. As I interprit it if i take steps to reduce the risk were possible then I am complying

[genesis_windows]

If you work safely off a ladder then you will be within the realms of the law, maybe youll have a prob if you fall.
thats not the reason i use wfp on ALL windows up and down and have done  so for the last year.
the reason is - piece of mind with regards to my own safety, working clever(poles are lighter than ladders and you dont need to climb them),effective results (never had a complaint after explaining about 1st cleans),and the amount of money you can make SO much quicker than off  ladder.
window cleaning is very financially rewarding but since i started 15 years ago i have seen lots of ways, ladders, cherry pickers, abseiling etc and the quickest and easiest by far is the wfp.
If you guys want to use ladders and squeegees, my hat goes off to you.
Ive done it for years and cant be arsed  to climb anymore, sod the hse, like its been said before,its not being policed. i do it for the easy life in comparison to the ladder.
our job is to clean windows, not slag off how eachother do it. if you dont want a system, dont get one, if you dont want to climb a ladder- dont.
but whatever happens, its your choice(as long as you dont break the law)

[rosskesava]

I think the above posting is the best I've read on the subject.

I agree 100%.

Cheers

[Ian_Giles]

We keep having the Trad v WFP don't we?
I totally agree with Genesis and Tosh (who are both thinking along the same lines)
I don't give much of a care about the law, it wasn't the reason I got into WFP.

At the time I was on the point of packing in the window cleaning and maybe starting up in light haulage.
I was finding ladder work harder and harder, I've spent my entire working life up a ladder, first as a decorator and then a window cleaner.
My pension is worthless, I didn't want to be climbing 35ft up a ladder when I was well past retirement age.
I was becoming more and more aware of the dangers of working up a ladder, and no matter how careful you are you always have those little slips where nothing happens, but you know full well that on another occasion it could be disaster.
And then I went for WFP.
My working life is just so much bloody easier!
I am no longer so tired at the end of the day and my income has greatly increased, and still has the potential to increase still further.
When I get to the point I'm aiming for, I'll be earning my target income and will be finished by lunchtime most days.
I'm not aiming as high as many on the forum, but my target income is very acheivable, but there is no way I could do this at my age using traditional methods.

Squeaks mentioned a conversation we had the other day, his recollection of it is different to mine.
Do I think WFP would be suitable for his round?
Simple answer - yes.
But we were not really talking about the suitability of WFP for his round, rather it was more in line with would he earn more than enough to - for instance - pay for a new van + equipment and be left with more money in his pocket than he has a t present.
Over this question I hesitated and pondered my reply, Squeaks is known by all on here to be fairly anti WFP, so I didn't want to give an inaccurate reply to his question.
His observation was what is the point if I am going to earn more money but spend it on the payments for a van and new equipment?
A valid point I think.
And I have to bear in mind the Squeaks is pretty quick with trad.
But this was only a conversation through the van window as I was dropping off my daughter for her lift to work, and Squeaks was buying his newspaper (The Daily ****)
A little unfair of you Rog to use that to highlight a point you were making.
We didn't have the time to truly discuss the issue, and there are really several aspects to explore, which I'd gladly do.

Also, many customers are becoming aware of the WAHD, often new customers are actually ahead of me, and I usually have to tell them that, no, ladders are not banned, but they might be in the future.

Like Dai I also hope that ladder users remain ladder users for the foreseable future, unfortunately WFP usage is accelerating

It isn't a licence to print money, there is much to learn and understand....

Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

...Squeaks is known by all on here to be fairly anti WFP, so I didn't want to give an inaccurate reply to his question.
His observation was what is the point if I am going to earn more money but spend it on the payments for a van and new equipment?
A valid point I think.
And I have to bear in mind the Squeaks is pretty quick with trad.

Sorry Ian, that's what I was getting at, but I didn't explain it here properly.