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andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #160 on: November 18, 2012, 04:26:36 pm »
As a slight aside, just recently taken on a fella who has cleaned windows off a ladder for 20+ years. We are 95% WFP. I'd be mad to employ and not put said individual through a ladder safety and awareness course surely?. Not for his benefit but mine. I'd be interested to hear any doubters opinions.

I would agree it's a duty as an employer to make training available to an employee.
Although there is no regulation that I have seen that says it has to be an NVQ related training scheme that provides it.
But clarity is needed on sole traders who are being told by Mr Willis that we are working illegally if we have not received the training.
One of the Plebs

gewindows

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #161 on: November 18, 2012, 04:33:36 pm »
The legality is not my prime concern as such. More that as an employer my own back is covered should an accident occur.

If you supply equipment of an appropriate standard, make suitable health and safety awareness courses available, have employee and P/L insurance then you've done all you can as an employer and haven't left yourself open to some sort of dispute be that legal or not.

Window Washers

  • Posts: 9036
Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #162 on: November 18, 2012, 04:43:51 pm »
The legality is not my prime concern as such. More that as an employer my own back is covered should an accident occur.

If you supply equipment of an appropriate standard, make suitable health and safety awareness courses available, have employee and P/L insurance then you've done all you can as an employer and haven't left yourself open to some sort of dispute be that legal or not.
they need to be trained in use Rise and Shine and you need to document that training or it is there word against your should an accident happen and will all know they side with the employee
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)

Dave Willis

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #163 on: November 18, 2012, 04:53:23 pm »
Why not write about it on here? We don't lose a days wages or waste fuel, you don't lose anything either.  ???

Trevor Perry can write sensible understandable posts - can't you Andrew?

Mark take it from me Andrew has a vast amount of knowledge of the industry, i disagree with some of his interpretations but there is a saying dont throw the baby out with the bath water why not take andrew up on his offer, it is pointless if these discussions become slagging matches as then no one gains any benefit.
  


Very true, but if Andrew would like to write a proper article explaining the health and safety side side of the argument then maybe the mods can make it a sticky so that a slanging match doesn't ensue. It's no use making bold statements like "ladders are banned, working from a flat roof is illegal, you are breaking the law if you don't cordon off the pole area" or similar phrases to this then tell anyone who doesn't understand to come on one of his courses.
Some of us live miles away, some just don't have the time or money or motivation to get on a course.
It's so simple to communicate on the internet, costs nothing and could save arguments and even lives.

But then he wouldn't make any money would he?

gewindows

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #164 on: November 18, 2012, 04:58:50 pm »
The legality is not my prime concern as such. More that as an employer my own back is covered should an accident occur.

If you supply equipment of an appropriate standard, make suitable health and safety awareness courses available, have employee and P/L insurance then you've done all you can as an employer and haven't left yourself open to some sort of dispute be that legal or not.
they need to be trained in use

Isn't that what a ladder training awareness course is all about?

Window Washers

  • Posts: 9036
Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #165 on: November 18, 2012, 04:59:48 pm »
The legality is not my prime concern as such. More that as an employer my own back is covered should an accident occur.

If you supply equipment of an appropriate standard, make suitable health and safety awareness courses available, have employee and P/L insurance then you've done all you can as an employer and haven't left yourself open to some sort of dispute be that legal or not.
they need to be trained in use

Isn't that what a ladder training awareness course is all about?
if they only use ladders yes
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)

gewindows

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #166 on: November 18, 2012, 05:09:48 pm »
My concerns are the health and safety of employees particularly whilst using ladders. It is this that concerns me as it is through this method of working that as employers we are most open to civil or legal dispute should an accident occur.

Steve Sed

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #167 on: November 18, 2012, 05:18:12 pm »
As a slight aside, just recently taken on a fella who has cleaned windows off a ladder for 20+ years. We are 95% WFP. I'd be mad to employ and not put said individual through a ladder safety and awareness course surely?. Not for his benefit but mine. I'd be interested to hear any doubters opinions.
That seems sensible, but personally I wouldn't employ a ladders only window cleaner to clean off ladders, but I see the logic if there will be occasional ladder use. To access flat roofs for example.  ;D

gewindows

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #168 on: November 18, 2012, 05:21:08 pm »
I'm employing an ex trad cleaner to clean WFP. However there are always times when a ladder is required. It is these times that I'm concerned about however infrequent.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #169 on: November 18, 2012, 05:23:54 pm »
Please keep personal insults out of it, we all have personal views, no need to insult anyone

Steve Sed

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #170 on: November 18, 2012, 05:24:34 pm »
I'm employing an ex trad cleaner to clean WFP. However there are always times when a ladder is required. It is these times that I'm concerned about however infrequent.

Hope all went well in Oxford today assuming that was your van I saw earlier with Steve's.

Dave Willis

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #171 on: November 18, 2012, 05:29:05 pm »
Please keep personal insults out of it, we all have personal views, no need to insult anyone

Me  ???

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #172 on: November 18, 2012, 05:32:26 pm »
Mark I never mentioned anyone

 I am not naming names, but some of the posts are becoming a bit personal

Dave Willis

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #173 on: November 18, 2012, 05:37:47 pm »
If it was me I apologise I don't mean for anything to be personal.
I only want clarification on some confusing statements and am pointing out the irony (might be on the other thread) of a windowcleaner hand in hand with the trainers who probably doesn't abide by Impacts "Laws"either.

gewindows

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #174 on: November 18, 2012, 05:38:07 pm »
I'm employing an ex trad cleaner to clean WFP. However there are always times when a ladder is required. It is these times that I'm concerned about however infrequent.

Hope all went well in Oxford today assuming that was your van I saw earlier with Steve's.

Steve?

Steve Sed

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #175 on: November 18, 2012, 05:45:55 pm »
I'm employing an ex trad cleaner to clean WFP. However there are always times when a ladder is required. It is these times that I'm concerned about however infrequent.

Hope all went well in Oxford today assuming that was your van I saw earlier with Steve's.

Steve?

Yeah. We were heading across town to pick up daughter then down to Gosport for the half marathon. Past Steve's is a ratrun.

gewindows

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #176 on: November 18, 2012, 05:50:33 pm »
Steve who?

stuart mc

  • Posts: 7775
Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #177 on: November 18, 2012, 06:02:09 pm »
The legality is not my prime concern as such. More that as an employer my own back is covered should an accident occur.

If you supply equipment of an appropriate standard, make suitable health and safety awareness courses available, have employee and P/L insurance then you've done all you can as an employer and haven't left yourself open to some sort of dispute be that legal or not.
they need to be trained in use

Isn't that what a ladder training awareness course is all about?
if they only use ladders yes

not sure I agree, when I had a lad under 18 he was 99% wfp I employed via the council youth training scheme and I had to run everything by their H&S rep, he authorised and organised a safe ladder use course for the odd occasion we used ladders, also got him NVQ qualified all funded by the council

Steve Sed

Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #178 on: November 18, 2012, 06:14:06 pm »
I'm employing an ex trad cleaner to clean WFP. However there are always times when a ladder is required. It is these times that I'm concerned about however infrequent.

Hope all went well in Oxford today assuming that was your van I saw earlier with Steve's.

Steve?

Obviously mistaken identity. Apologies.

Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9022
Re: FAO, Andrew Willis. New HSE rules.
« Reply #179 on: November 18, 2012, 06:14:22 pm »
central location then half way between cambridge and cornwall has to be bristol ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D