[andyM]

As a slight aside, just recently taken on a fella who has cleaned windows off a ladder for 20+ years. We are 95% WFP. I'd be mad to employ and not put said individual through a ladder safety and awareness course surely?. Not for his benefit but mine. I'd be interested to hear any doubters opinions.

I would agree it's a duty as an employer to make training available to an employee.
Although there is no regulation that I have seen that says it has to be an NVQ related training scheme that provides it.
But clarity is needed on sole traders who are being told by Mr Willis that we are working illegally if we have not received the training.

[gewindows]

The legality is not my prime concern as such. More that as an employer my own back is covered should an accident occur.

If you supply equipment of an appropriate standard, make suitable health and safety awareness courses available, have employee and P/L insurance then you've done all you can as an employer and haven't left yourself open to some sort of dispute be that legal or not.

[Window Washers]

The legality is not my prime concern as such. More that as an employer my own back is covered should an accident occur.

If you supply equipment of an appropriate standard, make suitable health and safety awareness courses available, have employee and P/L insurance then you've done all you can as an employer and haven't left yourself open to some sort of dispute be that legal or not.

they need to be trained in use Rise and Shine and you need to document that training or it is there word against your should an accident happen and will all know they side with the employee

[Dave Willis]

Why not write about it on here? We don't lose a days wages or waste fuel, you don't lose anything either.  

Trevor Perry can write sensible understandable posts - can't you Andrew?

Mark take it from me Andrew has a vast amount of knowledge of the industry, i disagree with some of his interpretations but there is a saying dont throw the baby out with the bath water why not take andrew up on his offer, it is pointless if these discussions become slagging matches as then no one gains any benefit.
  

Very true, but if Andrew would like to write a proper article explaining the health and safety side side of the argument then maybe the mods can make it a sticky so that a slanging match doesn't ensue. It's no use making bold statements like "ladders are banned, working from a flat roof is illegal, you are breaking the law if you don't cordon off the pole area" or similar phrases to this then tell anyone who doesn't understand to come on one of his courses.
Some of us live miles away, some just don't have the time or money or motivation to get on a course.
It's so simple to communicate on the internet, costs nothing and could save arguments and even lives.

But then he wouldn't make any money would he?

[gewindows]

The legality is not my prime concern as such. More that as an employer my own back is covered should an accident occur.

If you supply equipment of an appropriate standard, make suitable health and safety awareness courses available, have employee and P/L insurance then you've done all you can as an employer and haven't left yourself open to some sort of dispute be that legal or not.

they need to be trained in use

Isn't that what a ladder training awareness course is all about?

[Window Washers]

The legality is not my prime concern as such. More that as an employer my own back is covered should an accident occur.

If you supply equipment of an appropriate standard, make suitable health and safety awareness courses available, have employee and P/L insurance then you've done all you can as an employer and haven't left yourself open to some sort of dispute be that legal or not.

they need to be trained in use

Isn't that what a ladder training awareness course is all about?

if they only use ladders yes

[gewindows]

My concerns are the health and safety of employees particularly whilst using ladders. It is this that concerns me as it is through this method of working that as employers we are most open to civil or legal dispute should an accident occur.

[Steve Sed]

As a slight aside, just recently taken on a fella who has cleaned windows off a ladder for 20+ years. We are 95% WFP. I'd be mad to employ and not put said individual through a ladder safety and awareness course surely?. Not for his benefit but mine. I'd be interested to hear any doubters opinions.

That seems sensible, but personally I wouldn't employ a ladders only window cleaner to clean off ladders, but I see the logic if there will be occasional ladder use. To access flat roofs for example. 

[gewindows]

I'm employing an ex trad cleaner to clean WFP. However there are always times when a ladder is required. It is these times that I'm concerned about however infrequent.

[Moderator David@stives]

Please keep personal insults out of it, we all have personal views, no need to insult anyone

[Steve Sed]

I'm employing an ex trad cleaner to clean WFP. However there are always times when a ladder is required. It is these times that I'm concerned about however infrequent.

Hope all went well in Oxford today assuming that was your van I saw earlier with Steve's.

[Dave Willis]

Please keep personal insults out of it, we all have personal views, no need to insult anyone

Me 

[Moderator David@stives]

Mark I never mentioned anyone

 I am not naming names, but some of the posts are becoming a bit personal

[Dave Willis]

If it was me I apologise I don't mean for anything to be personal.
I only want clarification on some confusing statements and am pointing out the irony (might be on the other thread) of a windowcleaner hand in hand with the trainers who probably doesn't abide by Impacts "Laws"either.

[gewindows]

I'm employing an ex trad cleaner to clean WFP. However there are always times when a ladder is required. It is these times that I'm concerned about however infrequent.

Hope all went well in Oxford today assuming that was your van I saw earlier with Steve's.

Steve?

[Steve Sed]

I'm employing an ex trad cleaner to clean WFP. However there are always times when a ladder is required. It is these times that I'm concerned about however infrequent.

Hope all went well in Oxford today assuming that was your van I saw earlier with Steve's.

Steve?

Yeah. We were heading across town to pick up daughter then down to Gosport for the half marathon. Past Steve's is a ratrun.

[gewindows]

Steve who?

[stuart mc]

The legality is not my prime concern as such. More that as an employer my own back is covered should an accident occur.

If you supply equipment of an appropriate standard, make suitable health and safety awareness courses available, have employee and P/L insurance then you've done all you can as an employer and haven't left yourself open to some sort of dispute be that legal or not.

they need to be trained in use

Isn't that what a ladder training awareness course is all about?

if they only use ladders yes

not sure I agree, when I had a lad under 18 he was 99% wfp I employed via the council youth training scheme and I had to run everything by their H&S rep, he authorised and organised a safe ladder use course for the odd occasion we used ladders, also got him NVQ qualified all funded by the council

[Steve Sed]

I'm employing an ex trad cleaner to clean WFP. However there are always times when a ladder is required. It is these times that I'm concerned about however infrequent.

Hope all went well in Oxford today assuming that was your van I saw earlier with Steve's.

Steve?

Obviously mistaken identity. Apologies.

[Frankybadboy]

central location then half way between cambridge and cornwall has to be bristol