[Andrew Willis]

Wow it looks like I opened a can of worms with this topic   Apart from the slating of Andrew Willis its good that so many views come across.
I would not have put Andrews name in the title if I had thought it would turn into (as Mr Cameron said recently) a witch hunt. I asked Andrews opinion as I do think he "knows his onions"
like him or not, agree with his courses or not I don't think anyone can argue that his intentions are good and he has helped a lot of people, myself included. And why would he not wish to earn a living from that? he would be a fool not to.
Maybe the certificate I received at the end was useless (not even sure where it is) but what was not useless are the things I learned about working more safety and within the law.
If the HSE do start spot checks then perhaps a little of what I learned and have put into practice will help. if I don't implement it, then its my own fault. If I didn't bother to learn my responsibility in the first place, then I have no excuse.
I think people are to quick to judge Andrew if they have not done his course. It seems those who have done it generally speak highly of him. Surely that speaks volumes!

It will be interesting to see what happens when the first window cleaning company is chosen by the HSE and if it sets them on a path to look at others.
Who will it be?  You perhaps?  

 

Thanks for the post Neil

Regards

Andy

[Andrew Willis]

Wow it looks like I opened a can of worms with this topic   Apart from the slating of Andrew Willis its good that so many views come across.
I would not have put Andrews name in the title if I had thought it would turn into (as Mr Cameron said recently) a witch hunt. I asked Andrews opinion as I do think he "knows his onions"
like him or not, agree with his courses or not I don't think anyone can argue that his intentions are good and he has helped a lot of people, myself included. And why would he not wish to earn a living from that? he would be a fool not to.
Maybe the certificate I received at the end was useless (not even sure where it is) but what was not useless are the things I learned about working more safety and within the law.
If the HSE do start spot checks then perhaps a little of what I learned and have put into practice will help. if I don't implement it, then its my own fault. If I didn't bother to learn my responsibility in the first place, then I have no excuse.
I think people are to quick to judge Andrew if they have not done his course. It seems those who have done it generally speak highly of him. Surely that speaks volumes!

It will be interesting to see what happens when the first window cleaning company is chosen by the HSE and if it sets them on a path to look at others.
Who will it be?  You perhaps?  

 

Thanks for the post Neil

Regards

Andy

Quick visit to CIUp sorry off out shortly

[Frankybadboy]

i just love a course in bristol

[Moderator David@stives]

Frank

you missed it, my son was on it.

I have to send another couple of guys on one, so theres 3

[James Leet]

Ian

The course is impossible to fail, that is one thing I do agree with.

Dave, the course has changed so much from when you attended, I like to think its come on a long way. I am always keen to improve it more and with the likes of Trevor I am open to sit down and look at how we make it the best course around.

A good politicians reply, you do not say that it is possible to fail the course, you leave it upto people to think that with the bold sentence, you really do think WC'ers are that bright do you ? we can see through BS

I still guess its not possible to fail it

 

[Moderator David@stives]

Hi James

I dont think that is a bad thing really, having given up 3 days of your time, you would need to be asleep to fail

I think it is impossible to fail any course

ie, IPAf, Pasma, Ladder training, basic H&S, I have never known anyone to fail anyone of those mentioned

On my Mewp course, i bottled it on the 3rd  of 3 catagories, I went back the next day, focused and then passed, but did not fail.

all the help and support is there on the nvq course making it impossible to fail, I think its more of you attended and took it all in course.

In most course you only need 55% to pass, so making more or less any course impossible to fail.

[rosskesava]

In fairness, the courses I've been on, although to do with roped access and working at height, have all been excellent and while it was impossible to fail the general working at height courses, 'passing' wasn't the purpose. The purpose of the courses was to educate and the test at the end was to help create a focal to the course.

I have to admit that for a while after going on each course I was much more aware of risk and how to manage that risk safely. I think courses are a good idea if only to stop someone seeing a risk that is constantly taken as not being a risk as in 'nothing has happened the last 30 times I walked on this sloping roof so it's safe to do so'.

Quite often it's when risk taking becomes the normal that accidents happen. Other times it's when the risk isn't realised beforehand and sometimes it's just plain stupidity and any course that helps change those mentalities to risk has to be a good thing. Those on this forum who think that H & S course are a waste of time and only state the 'bleeding obvious' are to my mind the very people who need to go on such courses.

[Window Washers]

In fairness, the courses I've been on, although to do with roped access and working at height, have all been excellent and while it was impossible to fail the general working at height courses, 'passing' wasn't the purpose. The purpose of the courses was to educate and the test at the end was to help create a focal to the course.

I have to admit that for a while after going on each course I was much more aware of risk and how to manage that risk safely. I think courses are a good idea if only to stop someone seeing a risk that is constantly taken as not being a risk as in 'nothing has happened the last 30 times I walked on this sloping roof so it's safe to do so'.

Quite often it's when risk taking becomes the normal that accidents happen. Other times it's when the risk isn't realised beforehand and sometimes it's just plain stupidity and any course that helps change those mentalities to risk has to be a good thing. Those on this forum who think that H & S course are a waste of time and only state the 'bleeding obvious' are to my mind the very people who need to go on such courses.

best post I have read today

[James Leet]

Window Washers you might have missed these posts ?

Ian,
Do your staff cordon off an area to match the height of the poles they use? Of course they don't!

You can twist this as many times as you like qualified more or not as qualified, the question I would ask is have you don't anything to at least learn or are you another troll? James I have just had a look in your back posts wow quite shocking mr

Have i read that you do work for Mr Willis, i guess that means you have a ' vested interest ' , so i guess we shouldnt really take much notice as you wouldnt want to bite that the hand and all that

[rosskesava]

Why is it so strange that any one that has a vested interest would post in accordance with that interest?

Isn't that the way it all works, I mean, we're window cleaners so we have a vested interest in people having their windows cleaned. Maybe then, as vested interest is so bad, we should be telling people not to have their windows cleaned?

[Dave Willis]

I've just bought some new warning signs that warn of the danger of tripping over cones left on the pavement.
I actually think warning cones are a risk to the public and should be perceived as such on any risk assessment. Trailing hose scores 2 - very small risk whilst cones score 5 - medium to high risk of tripping.. I was going to use hazard tape to cordon off areas but there is a high risk of strangulation to old people and babies.
Soon all window cleaning will be carried out at night whilst everyone is safely strapped in bed with air bags for pillows.

[andyM]

I've just bought some new warning signs that warn of the danger of tripping over cones left on the pavement.
I actually think warning cones are a risk to the public and should be perceived as such on any risk assessment. Trailing hose scores 2 - very small risk whilst cones score 5 - medium to high risk of tripping.. I was going to use hazard tape to cordon off areas but there is a high risk of strangulation to old people and babies.
Soon all window cleaning will be carried out at night whilst everyone is safely strapped in bed with air bags for pillows.

It's tongue in cheek comments like that Mark Etting that leave all of us opinionated window cleaners to be classsed as uneducated idiots.
Although I would bet my sunday roast that a lot of the posters who were challenging the opinion that we are working illegally, because we don't have a certificate to say we know how to use a water fed pole actually do have Health & Safety Training and knowledge gained in other industries.
I skipped through my copy of the PUWER 1998 regulations I have and still could not see where it said I would be working illegally as a sole trader if I was not trained in the use of a water fed pole.
However the regulations are worded in such a way that if the need should ever arise they can be interpreted in a broader sense to cover all the bases it would seem.
What's more important a window cleaner who has a certificate gathering dust in the loft but lacks the perception to think for himself? Or an individual who takes his common sense with him to work everyday? 

ps. A High-Viz vest was worn while typing this message.
Excuse me while I go and write a risk assessment for the task of preparing breakfast. Bowls and spoons can be potential killers...........  

[Window Washers]

Window Washers you might have missed these posts ?

Ian,
Do your staff cordon off an area to match the height of the poles they use? Of course they don't!

You can twist this as many times as you like qualified more or not as qualified, the question I would ask is have you don't anything to at least learn or are you another troll? James I have just had a look in your back posts wow quite shocking mr

Have i read that you do work for Mr Willis, i guess that means you have a ' vested interest ' , so i guess we shouldnt really take much notice as you wouldnt want to bite that the hand and all that p

James my vested interest is helping people I have done that online for years and now I do it face to face with people aswell
My guys are trained by me to work safely, i also put them through the course as i think it is a very good thing that being done, I could say one thing and it would not be believed by some of you so  im not going to discuss my business with you or a guy that is hiding behind a false name. what you will find is that i am honest i dont hide behind a name and i am willing to meet anyone off here. i really cant see why that you and the other couple of people are making safety of people a joke which it is not
What are you getting from doing this James honestly ?

[trevor perry]

hi ian in defence of james he asked the question do your staff courdon off the work area to same height of the pole i can honestly say i do not and whats more i have no intention of starting , on the odd occasion due to using a large pole with pedestrian traffic present i might now consider this option if it is possible to implement without causing risks that out measure the one it is meant to prevent, or as in past may just have a banksman to keep watch for risks

   on the course Andrew puts a picture up of a scene and when i pointed out the coned off area caused a larger risk in that pedestrians now had to walk onto public highway instead of the pavement he sugested then maybe useing a cherrypicker is the answer, my thoughts on this matter is not only are costs significantly increase but so are the risks, traffic would need stopping to load and unload cherrypicker, these machines weigh many tons and could easily damage paving causing a trip hazzard and whats more the first rule of work at height regs is can you avoid the need to work at height in the first place.
 
  From the above scene whatever method is chosen if an accident was to occur then the HSE or a solicitor could go through all the legislation and prosecute on one or more issues depending on how they decide to interpret the regs, they could bring forth expert HSE officials who see things the way they see them and all i would be able to supply would be a couple of basic certificates and that i thought i was using common sense.

  I dont know james or many of the others posters on this topic but i do know the frustration we all share when it comes to what we can and cant do and this can often come across as just being argumentative

[Dave Willis]

So Ian by getting all defensive your staff obviously don't cordon off the areas they work in do they? Your name by the way isn't Mr Window Washers is it? My name isn't Mark Etting either. I'm not hiding anywhwere If it makes you feel good I'll give you my name. My forum name was changed when the powers that be insisted we use our real names. (I hate being told what to do) I've been ftp and Dave W and my email is probably in my profile.


Back to the point - you work for this shower and I'll bet a weeks wages your staff don't adhere religiously to their rules.

Incidentally the only guy with an once of sense seems to be Trever Perry - give him your job I say or even better give him the job of training people in health and safety.  

As an afterthought you must remember your whiter than white stance of being here to help people is bollocs I've been on here long enough to know it's for financial reward, someone like Matt used to help people years ago for Nothing!

[James Leet]

Window Washers you might have missed these posts ?

Ian,
Do your staff cordon off an area to match the height of the poles they use? Of course they don't!

You can twist this as many times as you like qualified more or not as qualified, the question I would ask is have you don't anything to at least learn or are you another troll? James I have just had a look in your back posts wow quite shocking mr

Have i read that you do work for Mr Willis, i guess that means you have a ' vested interest ' , so i guess we shouldnt really take much notice as you wouldnt want to bite that the hand and all that p

James my vested interest is helping people I have done that online for years and now I do it face to face with people aswell
My guys are trained by me to work safely, i also put them through the course as i think it is a very good thing that being done, I could say one thing and it would not be believed by some of you so  im not going to discuss my business with you or a guy that is hiding behind a false name. what you will find is that i am honest i dont hide behind a name and i am willing to meet anyone off here. i really cant see why that you and the other couple of people are making safety of people a joke which it is not
What are you getting from doing this James honestly ?

Yet another Non-answer, Do you do work for Mr Willis ? i guess by your lack of answer, it is a YES

You also forgot to answer the question from Mark, do you put into practice what you / mr Willis seem to preach ?  do you cordon off the area around you that equates to the length of your pole ?, my guess, NO

I wonder why you do not want to discuss it ?

Safety is never a joke, but we need to have common sense in it all, if we let you and mr Willis tell us what we need to do we would be a laughing stock and never able to earn a living, sometimes it needs people to stand up and speak out

[Andrew Willis]

Window Washers you might have missed these posts ?

Ian,
Do your staff cordon off an area to match the height of the poles they use? Of course they don't!

You can twist this as many times as you like qualified more or not as qualified, the question I would ask is have you don't anything to at least learn or are you another troll? James I have just had a look in your back posts wow quite shocking mr

Have i read that you do work for Mr Willis, i guess that means you have a ' vested interest ' , so i guess we shouldnt really take much notice as you wouldnt want to bite that the hand and all that p

James my vested interest is helping people I have done that online for years and now I do it face to face with people aswell
My guys are trained by me to work safely, i also put them through the course as i think it is a very good thing that being done, I could say one thing and it would not be believed by some of you so  im not going to discuss my business with you or a guy that is hiding behind a false name. what you will find is that i am honest i dont hide behind a name and i am willing to meet anyone off here. i really cant see why that you and the other couple of people are making safety of people a joke which it is not
What are you getting from doing this James honestly ?

Yet another Non-answer, Do you do work for Mr Willis ? i guess by your lack of answer, it is a YES

You also forgot to answer the question from Mark, do you put into practice what you / mr Willis seem to preach ?  do you cordon off the area around you that equates to the length of your pole ?, my guess, NO

I wonder why you do not want to discuss it ?

Safety is never a joke, but we need to have common sense in it all, if we let you and mr Willis tell us what we need to do we would be a laughing stock and never able to earn a living, sometimes it needs people to stand up and speak out

All posters

If you would like to choose a central location to get together I will give up a day and thoroughly address this issue
No pay
No funding
My time free
if you want to give up yours,

See there was no uptake on this, that would take effort
 

[Dave Willis]

Why not write about it on here? We don't lose a days wages or waste fuel, you don't lose anything either.  

Trevor Perry can write sensible understandable posts - can't you Andrew?

[trevor perry]

Why not write about it on here? We don't lose a days wages or waste fuel, you don't lose anything either.  

Trevor Perry can write sensible understandable posts - can't you Andrew?

Mark take it from me Andrew has a vast amount of knowledge of the industry, i disagree with some of his interpretations but there is a saying dont throw the baby out with the bath water why not take andrew up on his offer, it is pointless if these discussions become slagging matches as then no one gains any benefit.
 

[Moderator David@stives]

I will buy the first drink for everyone attending, beer or coffee and no I don't have a vested interested