[trevor perry]

i thought i would give my view on the first day of the impact 43 course i attended today as me and Andrew have had quite a few differences of opinion in the past, Andrew has a hands on knowledge of windowcleaning with many years experience both on the tools and in management, he told us a bit about his past and how he was on the recieving end of an investigation by the HSE after a tragic accident involving a cradle which was no fault of his company but an equipment problem, he went on to relate how HSE and insurance company thoroughly go through all paperwork the insurance companies doing so to try to avoid any liability and having to pay out money, basically if you dont have this paperwork your screwed, although Andrew was not found responsible for accident it severley damaged his business.
   Most of day was spent focussing on our responsibilities and what will be looked at by the HSE and insurance companies should an accident occur, we focussed on risk assessing and what controls to put in place, part of this involved how using water fed pole in a lot of cases falls short of meeting HSE guidlines in that sufficient controls are not in place to stop the pole falling and harming someone, ways where discussed to overcome this such as a restricted area in the fall perimeter of the pole and how one company in one case resorted back to using a cherrypicker for one particular job as cleaning by pole even in the early hours of the morning was to high of a risk due to pedestrian traffic, My personal view on this is that the controls put in place on this case study created more of a risk than the risk of a pole being dropped on somebody but that is my view which differs from Andrews, i think it would be interesting to throw a case study like this before the HSE to get their views on the subject maybe it is something Andrew could arrange.
   Over all the day was pretty informative and at no time did Andrew push his own opinions on how we should carry out our work but rather what the HSE will look at if an accident should occur and the basic paperwork we should have in place, i still have concerns on how our assessments would be viewed if an accident does occur in that one assessors views can differ vastly from anothers and depending on what aspect of legislation the HSE pick on you could still end up in serious trouble.
   i feel the views above are balanced and if i have got any of the information wrong then Andrew please feel free correct the post. 
PS i hope there isnt as much form filling on day two next month  i will review that after attending

[SunShineCleaning]

Which course is it?

[king marko]

Does this course have any relevance to Joe Bloggs whos a sole trader and who does 99% domestic?

[David Salkeld]

Does this course have any relevance to Joe Bloggs whos a sole trader and who does 99% domestic?

I understand your point....
Does a self employed, domestic window cleaner need to bother with 'training'
He's been faithfully cleaning his customers for years, they know and trust him..
In practice, not really.  But the risk is if he/she were to have an accident and someone got hurt
There would be claim involved and the poor, hard working, honest windy gets done
Because he didn't know he was operating illegal!
That's my point. In order to protect yourself you need the knowledge.
Now there is, of course, no need to go on a training coarse. HSE have extensive information online.
But do you know what to look for??
Iff the training is free then why not go and be pointed in the right direction.
No need to be sucked into all the other courses on offer.
Just get the general idea and be smart ;-)

David

[keyser soze]

i took the time to do the course and found it a eye opener when it came to  safety . glad i did it. id recommend it   

[colin purewater]

I did the course and really enjoyed it!
Andrew is a very knowledgeable man
And more than happy to share his experience

Well worth doing the course I hope there's another level
Coming soon

[Andrew Willis]

i thought i would give my view on the first day of the impact 43 course i attended today as me and Andrew have had quite a few differences of opinion in the past, Andrew has a hands on knowledge of windowcleaning with many years experience both on the tools and in management, he told us a bit about his past and how he was on the recieving end of an investigation by the HSE after a tragic accident involving a cradle which was no fault of his company but an equipment problem, he went on to relate how HSE and insurance company thoroughly go through all paperwork the insurance companies doing so to try to avoid any liability and having to pay out money, basically if you dont have this paperwork your screwed, although Andrew was not found responsible for accident it severley damaged his business.
   Most of day was spent focussing on our responsibilities and what will be looked at by the HSE and insurance companies should an accident occur, we focussed on risk assessing and what controls to put in place, part of this involved how using water fed pole in a lot of cases falls short of meeting HSE guidlines in that sufficient controls are not in place to stop the pole falling and harming someone, ways where discussed to overcome this such as a restricted area in the fall perimeter of the pole and how one company in one case resorted back to using a cherrypicker for one particular job as cleaning by pole even in the early hours of the morning was to high of a risk due to pedestrian traffic, My personal view on this is that the controls put in place on this case study created more of a risk than the risk of a pole being dropped on somebody but that is my view which differs from Andrews, i think it would be interesting to throw a case study like this before the HSE to get their views on the subject maybe it is something Andrew could arrange.
   Over all the day was pretty informative and at no time did Andrew push his own opinions on how we should carry out our work but rather what the HSE will look at if an accident should occur and the basic paperwork we should have in place, i still have concerns on how our assessments would be viewed if an accident does occur in that one assessors views can differ vastly from anothers and depending on what aspect of legislation the HSE pick on you could still end up in serious trouble.
   i feel the views above are balanced and if i have got any of the information wrong then Andrew please feel free correct the post. 
PS i hope there isnt as much form filling on day two next month  i will review that after attending

Thanks for the post Trevor was really nice having you in the group today. Can confirm less paperwork next workshop as day one includes all the registration documents. See you next month 

[Andrew Willis]

Which course is it?

iMPACT43  www.training43.com

[Andrew Willis]

Does this course have any relevance to Joe Bloggs whos a sole trader and who does 99% domestic?

We have a lot of sole trader domestic window cleaners attend, I think we have something for everyone during the workshops

[king marko]

Does this course have any relevance to Joe Bloggs whos a sole trader and who does 99% domestic?

I understand your point....
Does a self employed, domestic window cleaner need to bother with 'training'
He's been faithfully cleaning his customers for years, they know and trust him..
In practice, not really.  But the risk is if he/she were to have an accident and someone got hurt
There would be claim involved and the poor, hard working, honest windy gets done
Because he didn't know he was operating illegal!
That's my point. In order to protect yourself you need the knowledge.
Now there is, of course, no need to go on a training coarse. HSE have extensive information online.
But do you know what to look for??
Iff the training is free then why not go and be pointed in the right direction.
No need to be sucked into all the other courses on offer.
Just get the general idea and be smart ;-)

David

Thanks - I know what you're saying - it's free so why not?
Just can't think of a scenario off the top my head where I might have an accident Whilst working and injure someone else?
pole might fall over when extended and hit someone? It could happen, but it's highly unlikely (I've never heard of anyone on this site or anyone i know or in my own experience injuring a member of public. And I'm not silly enough to believe that it may never happen either!)
Trailing hose? Most of us take the relevant common sense precautions.


I have all the relevant insurance for myself (public liability, income protection etc.)

And why is the windy operating illegal?

I'm not dissing it, just interested

And please don't say come along to the workshops to find out!

[paul marshall]

marko im doin ok now , im all legal public liabilaty etc , but i have bin thinking of income protection for a few months now , any info  please 

[Lee Burbidge]

i took the time to do the course and found it a eye opener when it came to  safety . glad i did it. id recommend it   

I agree.... I did the same course..

[Tom Kelly]

Thanks everyone for all the kind words!


If you'd like a tad more information on the course, you can get some HERE