[geefree]

Hi all,

Over the last 3 winters i have used a 3000 watt element to heat the water, it also served as a huge radiator for the van in the early morning.... thus preventing anything in the van from freezing.

This year i have replaced the tank and have yet to put in an element...

so my question is , do i fit a hot water system with hot water on demand ( but does not heat the rear of the van)

or go with the element again?

What sort of prices are we looking at these days for the hot water system?and does anyone no a good supplier ,? ...... should i go down this route

Thanks.

[gary999]

did the element work and was it cheap or costly to run

[geefree]

It worked a treat...plugged in to an outside socket on the drive... on a timer set for 4am....

At 8am the water was more than warm and stayed that way until around 2pm,

it was a 640 ibc....and i lagged it with cheap loft insulation.

the rear of the van was nice and warm every morning...

i saw little difference in my electric bill , as i only used it last year when a sharp frost was forecast , or if i thought there would be a frost...

used it the year before in the bad winter, and still did not have a huge bill.

[gary999]

for me thats answered your question

i wonder if i could rig something up for barrels

[Ian Sheppard]

You could also look at a hot water controller with an out put to a heater Diesel/gas there are some good ones out there. That way you would have a frost protection plus an all year hot water system.

[LBWCS]

Fog wash and heater on Frost sat does it for me

[H20cleaning]

is it just me or do other windys enjoy working in the coldy/frosty weather!?
more to the point what make heaters do you use to heat tank water up?
also do you use heater to make hoses and microbore soft and easy to use?

[geefree]

Can anyone send a link to these hot water systems please.

[jouk45]

never used hot water and never will theirs no need to the facts are if it is below freezing you can not clean the glass anyway or it will crack simples , i have seen the proof from many w/c  in the past  costing them hundreds of pounds to replace whole double glazing and it is not cheap i can assure you, Isopropanol Alcohol
is the safest  way to ad to your water guaranteed peace of mind, but if you have big dosh coming in and can afford the insurance for the risk then i suppose your covered, but in my opinion for the small guy its not worth the risk in winter   am waiting on the replies 

[H2GoKent]

I believe you can crack glass if you have the water too hot.
Gazza was saying he warmed it up on frosty nights, which enables you to work the following day. it's an unusual day down here in the south when it stays below freezing all day, and by the time the waters travelled thru the hose that is on the ground it's not that warm anyway.

And it makes your hose all lovely and bendy, I love my immersion heater.

[Nathanael Jones]

IPA isn't very effective - you need a 20% solution to keep water liquid at -6 which would cost more than you'd earn!

[dazmond]

im with jouk on this one.no need for a hot system IMO.ive been able to work most days the last 2 winters with just a cold system with no major problems.

less expense,less faffing and generally more peace of mind.

if its below freezing say -5 its too cold for window cleaning so i just enjoy my time off and spend some of my "emergency fund" built up throughout the year!!!

i have worked in -5 with just a trad pole and tradding ground floor windows in very extreme prolonged periods of freezing weather(like the snow we had the other year) for a few hours but that was an exception.

-2 with cold wfp system is ok as long as you keep the water flowing and keep some hot water in van in case the jets freeze up!!

[Ian Sheppard]

The controllers with the frost protection mode that are out there heat the water to a few degrees above freezing only. Add the fact the flowing water is less likely to freeze. It is an option that suits some.

[geefree]

So going back to my original question.... where can i get the system ( cold water is bloody horrible on cold days)......

And how much am i looking at.


ps. luke warm water will not crack the glass... and it keeps everthing working.

[Scrimble]

gazza get a fog wash dont listen to the ignorant cold water "never used hot but i know it all" windys on here

http://www.window-tools.com/

[geefree]

Thanks Scrimble,

Thats the answer i was looking for,

No i dont listen to the them when they talk about cold water being fantastic in winter,

They are obviously in summer mode and forgot about the 2 nasty winters we have had recently.

Plus i have had an element producing hot / warm water through those 2 bad winters, so i know the value of it, ... warm hoses, warm van...warm hands....nothing freezing up etc etc ....


But hey...

Who am i to argue with people who find cold water , snow and ice the bees knees.?

[Nathanael Jones]

Peter's fogwash heater is the best on-demand gas heater I've used so far (Its the 4th one i tried!).

Combine it with a frost protect controller & you're winter worries are over. 

[Ian Sheppard]

Would agree with Nat - there are also some of the well know WFP suppliers from whom you can buy a complete system or you can go down the DIY route with a gas or Diesel heater coupled with a hot water controller of which there are a couple of choices.
As a supplier I am limited as to putting names up here if you want to mail me I am happy to give you 2 0r 3 options.


Cheers

Ian

[gary999]

Thanks Scrimble,

Thats the answer i was looking for,

No i dont listen to the them when they talk about cold water being fantastic in winter,

They are obviously in summer mode and forgot about the 2 nasty winters we have had recently.

Plus i have had an element producing hot / warm water through those 2 bad winters, so i know the value of it, ... warm hoses, warm van...warm hands....nothing freezing up etc etc ....


But hey...

Who am i to argue with people who find cold water , snow and ice the bees knees.?

you have gone soft! ...a genuine question whats wrong with the set up you have
now,we only have a few weeks of bad weather every year why fork out money if
not needed and you already have something that works

just asking out of interest

[Ian Sheppard]

Joeuk comment got me thinking

Glass will break if subjected to sudden and extreme changes in temperature EG stick a glass in the fridge chill it, pouring hot water into it will cases it to crack this is due to the fact the surface of the glass does not change evenly. Thermal dynamics mean the inside of the glass tries to expand faster than the out side.

You need quite a big and sudden change of temperature to cause the glass to break. While hunting around the web in the last couple of days I came across this

http://glasstalks.com/2011/03/16/physicalproperties/

The most common temperature issue with glass is not ‘high temperature’ but ‘thermal endurance’. Normal 6mm-thick float glass will rupture if heated to 75-degrees Celsius and plunged into 20-degree Celsius water (a temperature differential of 55 degrees). For this reason many glass products are toughened. Toughened float glass has a temperature differential of around 250 degrees. Other temperature properties of standard float glass include:

So is it possible that the times you have seen cracked window glass it may have been caused by a fault in the glass as opposed to a warm water wash?

Just a thought