[mark311069]

I have been contacted a couple of times by nationals and they don't like it when I laugh hysyerically down the phone at the rates offered,I know what your saying,we should all refuse to do them...!,

Graham

I do ............. no point in working for pennies ............ why bother ?

i agree i wont work for them not for a few quid. if we all stand together and dont do it we could force a change. BUT there will always be somebody who will work for peanuts. i just dont clean shops anymore. no more getting up early to clean them 

[Jack Judd]

The point has been largely missed as my gripe is not the same as the Tesco Metaphor as they actually provide you with a good level of service, quality food and a smile as much as I dislike their buying procedures.  In the outsourced example the level of services deteriorates due to how much the individual guy is earning and can afford to spend on the job.  Also a weekly clean which is what this chain originally had is now lost to a 2 week clean as this was the deal struck which is such a bad deal for the restaurant as if you have ever seen an interior window on a busy Italian restaurant after a week, ( greasy hand prints which Pure Water does not remove).  But it is not a tailored solution for a company but an easy deal that is made over price and nothing else.  The individual manager s will be largely disappointed, as well the little guy that has had to beg and be given a little underpriced (work which totally devalues their worth) .  I blame the little guy more than I do the national as after being in business myself he is the one that is changing the face of the industry.   Win your own commercial contracts and as for crying like a baby, I would say fighting like a tiger is more like it.

[mlscontractcleaner]

It's the customer who decides ultimately.

YOU are your unique selling point. The ones who like YOU  will stay with you.

Worry not.

On domestic work I agree; on commercial work, especially big chains, that's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. A little, faceless man will sit in head office and decide what is going to happen. It happened to me at Iceland, merrily cleaning away at a few shops in Plymouth and then all of a sudden being told that I was no longer needed, even though the shop managers wanted to keep us on.

[Jack Judd]

Blabbing like a girl was the little guy who said don't blame me for nicking your business, I was just told to come and clean the windows.  Bullpoop by signing up to a large national contractor you are siding with the devil and putting a stake through the business heart of all the hard working businesss that by some means had originally won that business.  I do blame you  and all others that behave like Mary's little cheap lamb.

[Total shine cleaning services]

well said that man ...!

Graham

[Mike55]

When commercial clients decide to use a national company, does the level of the window cleaning deteriorate? 

For example, I clean a small row of shops, except for one shop (Coral) which I believe is cleaned by a national company.  It is by far the dirtiest shop front.

Do the local Managers not eventually contact head office and complain about the service they are receiving going downhill?  I'm thinking in particular those that must have clean shop fronts at all times (restaurants, for example).

[William McCafferty]

I do work for a property management company who sub it off a large nation company, I offer a 1st cleass service and I price accordingly.

The company who I work for now understand that if they want a 2st class service, then the price will reflect this, the company they sub contract work from still want the best deal possible, which I cannot say is wrong, because we all do it.  Why pay £1200 for van insurance when you can get it for £788, I know this, because this happened, this year with my insurance renewel.

I have also turned down work by some nationals, when they want me to work for half the money I am already achieving, asking for window cleaners to refuse work to force the nationals from going after this work will not work, all they will do is add the cleaning of the windows to the duties of the general cleaners they already have on site, and get away with paying the minimum wage for the job.

What I have found works best is to get the customer to be vocal to the nationals, complain on a daily basis and create as much hassle as possible for them, they don't like this and then they either pay more for a better clean or increase the cleaining cycle.

You can also buy some shares in the likes of Tescos and at their next AGM you can go and vent your spleen against the CEO, but will you win back more business for the local guy???

[g.brookes]

it sounds like the debate here is between self employed and employed.  the reason the 'little man' works for the national contractors is because he gets guaranteed hours, holiday pay, sick pay, a boss to scare him out of bed every morning.
the self employed have none of this, but they also have a lot less power than the national companies.
as mentioned previously, this is an issue that has been experienced by most other trades before us- butchers, car mechanics, fruit and veg stores, coffe shops, local book shops etc.  The bottom line where 99% of the population is concerned is the price of what theyre buying.  If they can get it cheaper from tescos or whatever then they will because at the end of the day, people care about themselves and thats it.
the doom and gloom about national companies doing all the commercials is simply not goin to happen.  yes, it wll happen to all chain stores but then why wouldnt it? chain stores makes sense to have a 'chain store window cleaning company'.  We will not be ruined because of this, just simply focus on the jobs the nationals cant do.

and with regards to protesting against these actions, do what i do and use independent shops etc whenever you can.  We are only one person but so is everyone else, vote with your actions and be as powerful as you can be

[Jack Judd]

I agree with the advice of talking to the individual manager as that is the first thinh that we did.  I don't think it is about self employed versus employed as the little guy sets up a business as a sole trader, enjoys the life of running his own business, the freedom as well as all the challenges, is happy with the number of domestic customers and then decides that to be successful I need to being doing some commercial.  I know what I will do I will go and strip myself naked and work for some crap wage again.  I won't get sick pay or a company car but it's good to be rodgered again from a boss who isn't really a boss but throws me some loose change once in a while.  Surely that is not why the little guy went into buisiness in the first place.  Rant finished, gotto go and win some more business on my own.

[C o z y]

I don't know if it's already been said on this thread as I've not read all of it. (Too lazy)
IMO that's the way of the market. In my time in this game, about 20 years or so, I've found that large contracts go with price. The odd shops go with service and a face if you know what I mean. Nationals can only hit big contracts usually. I've always found that when I've got smaller commercial customers that I've had for at least a year, they tend to be loyal.

I couldn't imagine nationals trying to go into the domestic side of window cleaning. That could be a disaster for them.

[AuRavelling79]

I view it this way. I actually like to do a good job for my customers. A window is a window and I don't differentiate between commercial and domestic - I stay away from commercial or domestic that want a cheap (usually cruddy) job.

If my customer decides they want a cheaper job they likely will get a less conscientious window cleaner. The Italian restaurant chain will lose it's (if they had any) more discerning punters. Imagine how they source their ingredients if they are so cheap on their image as to go to fortnightly cleaning in an industry where presented cleanliness is paramount.

Let it go in all senses of the word and be grateful that some busy fool will do it for nowt and not have the nouse to go for more lucrative stuff while you will.

Somebody above said that "down his way" the local shop managers like to have a good clean exterior; the exception being "Coral's" who have the filthiest looking windows and which are done by a national. That's the point really - "down my way" Coral's look shabby too. The thing is the local chavs who stock up on Fags, Quavers and Jammy Dodgers don't care.

Just work for people who mirror your mindset - I do both commercial and domestic and I have some commercial stuff in Avonmouth - Avonmouth has a reputation for being industrial and mucky and most light industrials with offices couldn't care how filthy their windows are - they sell industrial stuff to industrial people and it's all part of the image. But here and there are people who want their business to reflect a bright image - that's the ones I clean for. They stand out, look smart and seem successful.

It goes in cycles; head office keener says cut costs; costs are cut and quality is cut; local manager finally says to his line manager "the place looks a dump" and if it gets bad enough he'll get told to find his own cleaner. Then it starts all over again.

I had a good customer go to a big firm in 2008 - the job they did was hit and miss and cruddy - a year later I sent a letter to my old contact and said - Hi, Ian, hope you don't think I'm being rude but your windows look really shabby, is this the image you want to present? If you can persuade your head office to cut you loose I'll do them at my last years rate.

Heard nothing. A full year after that I got an email saying a foreign director from head office was visiting, could I do a one off? I said yes if they pay a premium for the first clean (cuz they were so badly cleaned) and give me a years contract. I've been doing them again for three years.

But others you lose and that's it - on to the next.

[Steve_c]

New to the forum, but needed a platform to voice an opinion.  I run a small and so far successful window cleaning business.  I have a mix of domestic customers and commercial customers.  I have worked very hard to win commercial customers through hard work, good prospecting, through letters, phone calls and arranged meetings.  I turn up and quote for the work or tender for the business and then myself or one of my team will fulfil the agreed work.  I have also worked very hard at maintaining a reasonable profit margin on my work.  

Well let it be known that these large companies that are providing the so called national clean to commercial contracts are creating an environment where no of us will be earning any money in 10 years.  They are no different to the fat cat bankers and I blame them and the small minded people that are prepared to work for peanuts in order to get a commercial contract for destroying the hard work of the individual local companies.

My Window Cleaning Company has been cleaning one restaurant of an Italian chain based in Malvern for 3 years.  A lot of windows and we had a good working relationship. I turn up to complete the job this Monday find that there is another window cleaning company parked outside.  I find out that they have cleaned the windows inside and out.  Without being told the chain of restaurants is trailing a nationwide contract clean.  

ped off that I cut the family holiday short to complete the weekly clean was bad enough, but then to find out that the fats cats that got the national contract, and no company is bigger enough to clean all the windows in the UK, so what do they do, subcontract to another company, who then subcontracts again to a one man show who is prepared to work for nothing to get the job done and be part of the commercial contract world.  

Margins are squeezed as the fat cats that won the contract take their profit without no doubt cleaning a window and then on to the next middle man who takes his cut and then finally our one man band that is prepared to prostitute themselves.  The result is that the value for each job will go down and down.  What I heard from the little guy who wants the commercial work is that don’t blame me, I was instructed by the fat cats who I have recently started working for.  My point is that if you want commercial work, go and win it yourselves, if we become enslaved by the large cleaning companies that are positioning themselves as having the ability to conduct a national cleaning contract but in fact just outsource it to the little guys then there will be no money in this industry in the near future except for the large monopolistic cleaning organisations.    

If you are a local company you have the right to work and win the commercial work for that area without giving that profit to two middle men before you get your cut.  Where is everybody’s initiative?  If you set up a business then be a business and be a business man and don’t let yourself be pimped by the large companies.  

If all local businesses refused to be subcontracted, then very quickly the large companies that have only got large through the little guy’s hard work will not be able to complete a “national clean” and then won’t be able to be squeezed themselves on price which they pass down the line and each business would have a chance to negotiate with local businesses.   God I am furious.    

Bang on post mate, I lost a cracking southern cross care home to UK commercial, they are doing it for peanuts and doing a very very poor job. I know this as the caretaker told me its subbed and subbed and subbed so many times the idiot who dose it can't make money out of it so cuts corners. Stick together and say no, yes I agree but how we can achieve this in this economic climate I dont know? Great post mate keep your chin up and keep posting.

[AuRavelling79]

Nice one Paul! 

I was thinking McColls as in the corner shop - not Coral's the bookies. Duuuuuh! 

[Jack Judd]

Gold, Thank you, a top reply and what I needed to hear.   Will now lay low for a while as the moderator for this site was one of the nationals that passed my business onto someone else without even bothering to find out who the current window cleaner was.  The reason I take so much offense to perhaps what seems a matter of course to others is that I value, take pride and work hard to do a good job for my customers.  The Nationals are the moderators, very big brother!!!!
Good bye

[AuRavelling79]

Don't leave Jack, this sounds interesting - are you saying that one of our mods has quoted and got a contract you had and then got cheaper guys in to clean the place?

[wfp master]

Don't leave Jack, this sounds interesting - are you saying that one of our mods has quoted and got a contract you had and then got cheaper guys in to clean the place?

sounds like it. hope hes back to spill he beans

[Mike_G]

Hands up Mods, which one of you is guilty?

[G Griffin]

Tosh gets the contracts and gets Squeaky to clean them on the cheap. In return, Tosh keeps quiet about Squeaky's receding hairline.
Oops......sorry, Squeaks  .

[Frankybadboy]

Tosh gets the contracts and gets Squeaky to clean them on the cheap. In return, Tosh keeps quiet about Squeaky's receding hairline.
Oops......sorry, Squeaks  .

[dazmond]

stick to domestic,(small,medium,large) and medium commercial jobs like care homes,nurseries,offices etc.

its working for me!i never get any issues of the kind you mentioned!!!