[CleanerCarpets]

yep, lesson learnt Stu - to be honest i knew i had done the wrong thing when i bought it. If i ever sell the Scorpion it dont make sense to have cheap motors in a good machine and it down values it much more than what you are saving on the motor!

Got an original on its way now - hope i get the money back on the other.

And you are right about taking the Scorpy apart - thats the only thing that makes me want to replace it ever - when i have to take it apart and remember what a hassle it is!!

[john martin]

yep, lesson learnt Stu - to be honest i knew i had done the wrong thing when i bought it. If i ever sell the Scorpion it dont make sense to have cheap motors in a good machine and it down values it much more than what you are saving on the motor!

Got an original on its way now - hope i get the money back on the other.

And you are right about taking the Scorpy apart - thats the only thing that makes me want to replace it ever - when i have to take it apart and remember what a hassle it is!!

Bypassing the thermal switch is about a 30 second job ... i coulds post link if u like .
But really it says more about the Scorpion to me than the vac motor ...  poor cooling  ,  thats why other manufacturers fit fans etc .

[CleanerCarpets]

lol, ok John, we all know your dislike of Solutions and the Scorpion

So why havent the original Scorpion Lamb Ametek motors ever shut down due to cut off? Why have there been no reported issues of the Scorpion cooking motors (we all know the Jag does/did) Why are they overheating in other machines and lasting just months before dying? And why would i mess with the motor and void any warranty? Also bypassing the switch will just cause the motor to run over hot all the time and die very soon. I suspect they have a lower thermal cut off point to mask the fact they arent as good and in an attempt to get some lifespan out of them.

You have some very useful things to say - dont let your prejudices get in the way of misinforming people. These motors wont last and will overheat in any machine under load - your constant recommending of them does you nor anyone else any favours!!!

Maybe ok if you are only doing 10 minute jobs matey but for busy people like me they are no good  

[john martin]

lol, ok John, we all know your dislike of Solutions and the Scorpion

So why havent the original Scorpion Lamb Ametek motors ever shut down due to cut off? Why have there been no reported issues of the Scorpion cooking motors (we all know the Jag does/did) Why are they overheating in other machines and lasting just months before dying? And why would i mess with the motor and void any warranty? Also bypassing the switch will just cause the motor to run over hot all the time and die very soon. I suspect they have a lower thermal cut off point to mask the fact they arent as good and in an attempt to get some lifespan out of them.

You have some very useful things to say - dont let your prejudices get in the way of misinforming people. These motors wont last and will overheat in any machine under load - your constant recommending of them does you nor anyone else any favours!!!

Maybe ok if you are only doing 10 minute jobs matey but for busy people like me they are no good  

I think you'll find a few posts back i said to go for the mexican version as its just a few quid more  ... 
The motor is doing what its suppose to do ...  shutting down due to excessive heat .
Like you say it may have a lower switch setting or your original motors may not have a thermal switch .
You would not know without testing if removing the switch would cause premature failure ... it may still be functioning within a safeish temp range like the other motors .

I dont know the solutions guys or never dealt  with them  ...  i might have more respect for them if they didnt talk BS on the Internet .

Like wise with Cross American  , if they brought out a decent machine tomorrow i would give them the same respect or criticism as any other . 

[CleanerCarpets]

Don't get me wrong John, I have grown to like your posts and you very often have some great info, I wasn't slating you, merely pointing out what I suspect of these motors and letting people know of my experience of them so they can make an informed decision before they buy. You did indeed point me to a place to buy originals and I did indeed use that place to purchase one today - thank you!! I don't blame any one else but me for going cheap - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If I ever replace a motor in a back up machine or spotter those cheap motors would probably be a good punt.

As regards Solutions, I again agree with you on some points. Their forum has indeed become a club for the ones who will kneel at the feet of their Gods and then be welcomed into the Old Gentleman's Club. Many will continue to do so, blinded by the light until they discover Chemspec and a like and join the dark side!

I believe they will indeed have a new machine for you to cast your ever technical eye over soon - can't wait for that!

As a Scorpion owner, I was once very much drawn to 'upgrading' to a Jag when it came out. Now, it had problems - well documented and mud sticks. But from what I understand a lot of the new 6.6 motored machines did and the Jag just got the most documented stick and struggled the most to resolve the issues. Or did it? Is it completely sorted now - I don't know, some have had no problems at all from the start so who can be sure.

My point is mud sticks - would I have bought a Jag when it first came out if I had the cash - u bet I would. Would I buy one now - no. What's that based on - hear say and other peoples opinions. I have never used it. Was there a bad batch of motors at the start? If so why all the 'upgrades'?

So John, I am not oppose to a lot of what you say - I maybe a Scorpion owner but I am more on the dark side than the light!!

[stuart_clark]

Ive just been speaking to a carpet cleaning mate of mine who lives in Stafford, we bought a brand new Storm, less than three weeks ago and its blown a vac already! He is taking it back to cleansmart tomorow
p s I have two Scorpions, one is 7 years old and has never blown a vac, the other is 18 months old and in use every day, I did have the Jag from new but had loads of problems with it, I asked for my money back or a new Scorpion, I got a new Scorpion which had to be built specialy as they had stopped making them, yes I fell out with Solutions as they tried to say I neglected the Jag and thats why it kept breaking down and Nick white did this publicly as he did it with ian Ribchester ! Realy daft realy he must of lost loads of sales over that, most people know I swear by my Scorpy and in seven years has been completely trouble free,  yet the Jag was a pup from the word go
I hold Edd Valentine in extreemly high regard! Why ? Cos he is a gentleman and always gave me good service even for a machine which was well out of warantee

[CleanerCarpets]

Interesting info on the Storm - I really would have my worries on the 6.6 motors

[stuart_clark]

I do wonder how many storm owners have had problems with there machines?

[Carpet Dawg]

Touch wood. Its been over a year and a half now of constant use (used 6 days a week) and my Storm hasn't caused me any problems. Nothing replaced on it. TOUCHING WOOD!!

You'll find that if the machine has the adequate ventilation holes and a fan then the 6.6 vacs are fantastic.
That's why the jag had so many problems. Lacking the holes, fans and an overall poor design sold by a company that passes on blame.

Of course you'll have the odd one or two new machines that'll have a fault this is completely normal. I'm sure all manufactures have an odd machine being sent back.

[CleanerCarpets]

Glad yours has been reliable - nice to hear about machines working as they should

I think you are right, the Jag just wasnt vented enough for the new vacs and maybe still isnt as some are still dropping motors

[stuart_clark]

To be honest thats the first storm that ive heard about having a problem, but its how the supplier deals with it when its returned, will be interested to find out ! 
When the time comes in the not too long distant future I am still going for the Enforcer though !

Steve barnet was happy with his tripple but now uses the enforcer and is more than happy , I think that says it all for me

[Ed Valentine]

I must commend both Cleanercarpets and Mr Stuart Clarke on their comments. Always spot on, respectful, and considerate.

All manufacturers have, as anyone in business like yourself, has a certain amount of problems. We like to refer to these as: "situations" rather than problems. Why? Because situations can be solved by small tweaks, adjustments, etc. without being blown out of proportion....but sometimes a problem can not.

 Realizing that as a manufacturer we have hundreds of components, nuts and bolts that go into each and every machine and these are supplied and/or made by many, many OEM's with great reputations. (Please note: Those are the only ones we purchase from) However, there are times when they too may pass along unknown, (as only a example), a possible bad armature, a not so precisely milled  concealed internal electrical field, a bad nut or bolt, and so on. Sometimes, but very rarely, components can go through our in-plant testing's and pass with flying colors before release.

I can attest to the fact that the earlier situations regarding the 6.6 vacuum motors in the JAGUAR have been solved long ago by making a few adjustments, not just by us necessarily, but by the actual OEM Supplier(s). It is my belief that they (Ametek) may have had some small internal refinement adjustments made on those particular motors. Further I think if I were to guess (and only a guess?) a large part of this was due to a certain part made in China of all places! They , IMHO, have since learned their lesson and eventually pulled that back to being American Made.

Now, there have been no problems as with the SCORPION(s) of the past.

That is the good thing and what we all work very hard toward each and everyday.  Again, anyone of us in any business who has a certain amount of daily business, and especially in business for years acquiring more and more customers, has  a problem, or situation crop up from time to time that must be solved. Otherwise, you don't probably have many customers. But, I can say that those earlier situations were intensely focused on, attended to, and solved.

But the good news, we continue to make strives in  refinements with any of our products because that is why we are here. And because of you, we have stood the test of time and sincerely thank you for it.

Best to all and thank you for this opportunity of clearing this up.
Ed Valentine
cross-American corp.

[Andrew Briscoe]

It takes a brave man to admit that there was problems with the early Jags,
unfortunately some Jag owners were publicly belittled for daring to say there was a problem.

I owned a Scorpion and never had a problem with it, maybe you tried to re invent the wheel with the jag

[Ed Valentine]

Andrew,

Thank you for your post, however allow me to make one major correction. We did not want to reinvent the wheel (your words).

Please with due respect, re-read my post above which clearly states the facts.

I thank you kindly,
Ed Valentine

[Andrew Briscoe]

Ed re read mine, I said maybe
You have admitted there was earlier problems, sorry situations
these situations don't help the poor guys who had them and lost valuable downtime
and then being publicly humiliated for daring to say there was problems, erm, situations

[stuart_clark]

Andrew
I was one of the Jag owners that Nick White TRIED to discredit, unfortunately for him I diddnt just start carpet cleaning when I bought his Jauar machineI had been in the cleaning business for some twenty years or more, further I had owned the Scorpion for  nearly five years without the slightest hick up!  Yet he did his very best to say I had neglected the Jag, and as Cleanercarpets quite rightly said, Mud sticks and I am sure there would have been a lot of potential carpet cleaners/ customers put off by Mr Whites unprofessionalism  who did not want to end up in the same siuation as myself, I  know of at least eight carpet cleaners that purchased alternative machines because of this and another six that wont do any further business with him again

I do feel for Ed Valentine, as he is caught up in all this, its not his fault that the only uk supplier of his products is a unproffesional numpty!

Stuart

[Ed Valentine]

Andrew;

Yes, I did read your comments clearly, thank you.

There isn't even a carpet cleaner, or anyone in business that doesn't have brush fires from time to time, & therefore,  anyone commenting  otherwise is only dreaming or have other intentions. It is the goal of all of us to focus and work hard to solve those situations, and that we always have. Ametek has solved any situations; as we have. Further no one appreciates downtime Andrew, however, our UK Representatives were actively working on solving them with each and every customer. The communications were just terrific and always on a daily basis.  Although it has to be the goal of any one in business to achieve 100% customer satisfaction, that percentage is next to impossible (as you know and understand) because of certain variables unfortunately out of your control. Hard to please everyone as hard as you try to.

For anyone to suggest that anyone deceived someone, lied, or etc in an effort to service their customers is unfair and complete nonsense. (This was not directed toward you btw) You, like us or our honorable representatives would never intentionally do that because of our long long years of dedication to this great industry. Our goal will continue to build and distribute quality industrial equipment and solve situations for all, if that is possible. SOLUTIONS and there customers have been just terrific and always understanding as  the majority of Suppliers who have met certain standards all over the World; not just ours.

This is a great board with a lot of terrific Owner Operators who I'm sure can relate to my comments above. The very best to all of you and the very best to this Industry!.
 

[CleanerCarpets]

Ed - is there a new machine on the horizon?

[john martin]

Ed - is there a new machine on the horizon?

When was there ever a new machine  ...   

Its always the same machine with a different sticker  .

[CleanerCarpets]

lol - naughty!!

Just another update on that cheap motor - i ran the scorpion with one 2 inch vac hose on it today out in the open and under no load - ie i wasnt cleaning anything, it was just to let the new motor and the others to run to see how long before shut off

12 minutes and the new motor shut down whilst the others were singing away - steer clear of them, no good