[Morph]

I'm new to wfp, so I'm curious.

I read a lot on here from guys who just do the upstairs wfp.
Then downstairs trad.
Why?

Pj

[brett walker]

I just do tops with wfp to make the water last longer as i work out of an estate car but thinking of getting a trailer

regards

Brett

[steve k]

something I did as a way of introducing the customers to it. My reckoning was if you gave them dry clear glass at the bottom which they were used to and where they are doing most of their "looking out of" by the time they have decided or even thought of checking out the tops, they would be virtually dry and acceptable. When I moved onto the bottom windows with WFP, I was ready to pounce with " well, your top windows have been OK haven`t they?" but in all honesty, I have had no problems at all.

I often think that we are happy to clean windows at a height where we cannot see right up close to the finished product and trust the results due to our knowledge of WFP and yet, when we are able to clean bottom windows with a short pole, in full control both physically and visually of how we are cleaning the glass, we seem to lose our trust in the system and its results.
The only thing I would say is that bottom windows have had a battering of all manner of home-made and commercial cleaning products thrown over them over the years by the home-owners because they can reach them. This sometimes makes it very difficult to achieve a good sheeted rinse on the glass.

[matt]

4 reasons for me

1. i can carry 250 L's in 10 25L barrels, but i only carry 6 now, use 4 of them on a normal day, so i dont use that much water

2. I sold he customer the idea of WFP with the WaH Directive and the safety asspect of it, so that only applies to upstairs

3. i do it by hand cause i know that the downstairs will be a top notch job

4. the time factor, i dont think many of my customers would be happy with me being "on-site" for 10 mins and saying "thats 9 quid please luv"

[master cleaner]

i prefer it this way
 i like wfp upstairs but like traditional downstairs

unless downstairs frames need cleaning or its leaded

thanx

gary

[P @ F]

Im bone idle to be honest , i do tops and bottems , the way i see it is if you have the hose out then use the darn thing , i use more water but hey when you see the return who cares !
 My customers dont say a word about it , they love it , it was only a basic entry level system , but i cannot fault it , not a spot , ever

 Rich  P @ F 

[Sir Squeaky]

I've got to totally agree with Pj here.

If you've spent so much money on an alternative method, then why still do it the previous way?

If I got wfp(not that I ever would), then I'd replace my old method.
I'd only do it that way.

It's extra work if you're having to prepare and load two separate lots of kit.

Filling a bucket and barrels and washing scrims. Madness. :

Rog.

[matt]

Filling a bucket and barrels and washing scrims. Madness. :

Rog.

Rog, i will just make a comment here, its not to try and start a arguement, its just so others dont think its a valid point

I spend 10 mins a night filling my barrels, i start to fill one then unload my batteries from the van while that fills, 2 barrel i take my work box in the house (its got my books in it) 3rd barrel, i take the first 2 barrels to the car again, 4th barrel i just look pretty

as i only do half the scrim work, i wash mine every week ( i have about 20 scrims), load them into the machine and jobs done, hardly a major job

[Sir Squeaky]

Yeah, that's fair enough Matt.

As long as you're comfortable with all that.
It's more than I could be bothered with when I get home, but that's another topic.

Like you said, no arguements!

Cheers.

[mark6765]

does anyone think its quicker doing bottoms with the pole. tops are quicker obviously.
but i cnt help thinking sometimes thst i would be quicker with trad methods on the bottom. especially when you have to do the frames to make a good job.

[Jeff Brimble]

Squeeky its like when the squeegee hit town, nobody wanted it but gradually everyone added it to their arsenal, wfp is not about replacement more evolution.

[Sarah Sarill]

Hi Pj,

We only went residential with wfp in July this year after using it for commercial for 4 years or so.

For us the whole point of going wfp was safety, speed and reducing the tools we needed.

We do 100% of our work now with wfp (Omnitrolley).  Hubby just wheels the trolley and the pole around the back does tops and drops down and does the bottoms before he would have had the chance to change tools over to trad to do the bottoms only.  Repeats it for the front and goes on to the next one.  No belt, no bucket, no cloths and so far very few complaints.

By his reconing he does and extra 4 or 5 houses a day because he does it all wfp.

Personal choice though and its whatever suits the cleaner and the client.  My opinion is though - why spend the money on wfp and do half the trad way.  

Yes you use more water and that may be a logistical problem for some, we have a 1000 ltr tank on the van which we fill from and use approx 400-500 litres per day.

Happy cleaning  Pea Jay, try it both ways and see what suits YOU.  

Sarah

[JM123]

I do it all wfp - I'm probably 2x quicker downstairs and 3x quicker upstairs than when using trad.  With saying that its also the laziness thing in me that just says no to the scrim coming out too often

[Sir Squeaky]

Squeeky its like when the squeegee hit town, nobody wanted it but gradually everyone added it to their arsenal, wfp is not about replacement more evolution.

Well it's not really the same, as the squeegee was just a few quid and just a different way of drying the window other than chamios.
You're talking hundreds on a totally different method, so not everyone is going to change.
Anyway evolution generally means when something gets better.... :

I didn't think this topic was about what's better anyway, there's been plenty of boring threads on that already.

Rog.

[Ian_Giles]

mm, I'm rained off at the moment, so I think I'll do a time and motion study on myself cleaning my own windows.
The upstairs I know is quicker, but I'm going to time each window on the downstairs with WFP, then time each one whilst I do it trad.
I'll be interested to see what if any difference there is on time taken with downstairs windows that are straight forward to get to.

Wherever possible I always do the entire house WFP, even bungalows.

Ian

[Ian_Giles]

ok,

Results of time and motion studies

First off I did the downstairs traditional.

Timed on the kitchen door, which is a half georgian one-10 panes of glass. 2 min 45sec
rest of downstairs windows (bar 1 that needed a pointer ladder to get too and I couldn't be bothered ) which is another 4 windows-3 of which are the sadolin stained, 2 panes of glass type window, and the other one also has just 2 panes of glass, but the one pane is an opening light along the top.

Including the door, which makes 5 windows, time taken was; 6.06 min

Did whole house with WFP (apart from back) 5 upstairs windows (2 panes per window) and 7 downstairs windows (including the whole of the front door and the window I would have needed a pointer to get at.

Time taken 4.40 min

1 minute and 26 seconds faster for 7 extra windows.

Individual time for a single window.

28 seconds trad
11 seconds WFP

The same ground floor window.

Niether method was done at race speed, but trad was done at a 'busy' pace, frame wasn't cleaned, sill had light wipe over, edges had a very quick detail.

WFP was at normal working speed using roughly 2l per min and included everything.

Must say that I was genuinely surprised just how much faster WFP was on a ground floor window.

Ian

[JM123]

yeah, I thought I was twice as quick downstairs but 11secs compared to 28 and the frame done also - wfp rests its case m'laud

[Jeff Brimble]

4min40 was that doing tops then going back to do bottoms after dripping time ? or all in one go ?

[Ian_Giles]

Hi Jeff,
All the tops done first, then back to the the window beneath the first upstairs window cleaned and then all the downstairs cleaned.

4min 40 was for both upstairs and down.

Not big windows to be sure, 2 panes per window, but it was still 7 more windows cleaned in less time than it took me to clean the 5 downstairs ones traditional.

Take off the 2min 45sec for the half georgian and that makes a big difference in time for the trad work, but it was only a 15 second job for the WFP.


Ian

[windows_chepstow]

I mix and match.  Sometimes I do tops only, other times the whole thing.

Generally I work with Wor Lass and she follows behind doing the bottoms traditionally.  I can get to five or six houses ahead of her and we communicate via hand-held 'walkie talkies' if needed.

Once I finish the 'tops', I'll pack up the WFP gear and go knocking on those doors that haven't yet paid Wor Lass, or leave chits if they're out.

Then I'll get stuck in and finish off the bottoms with Wor Lass; traditionally.

It's really quick.  Far quicker than me using a ladder.

Normally I drop her off at home at 2.30 pm so she can walk the dog and collect the Little Un from school and I'll load up with more water and do tops and bottoms with WFP.