[poles apart]

I travel long distances with a full tank so the prospect of filling on site appeals to me. Are the hydrants plentiful and what is needed to tap into them. I've got an Ionics set up at the moment with two Champ 4000 RO's.What would I need to buy to fill on site?
Ta
Rod

[bullstopshere]

I travel long distances with a full tank so the prospect of filling on site appeals to me. Are the hydrants plentiful and what is needed to tap into them. I've got an Ionics set up at the moment with two Champ 4000 RO's.What would I need to buy to fill on site?
Ta
Rod

Hi Rod
Onceyou start looking for hydrants you will find them everywhere. Its fairly normal for them to be on the corners of buildings, quite often if you find one you will work out where the next one is. On secure sites they are commonplace unless you have customers who have sprinkler systems( look out for huge external water tank). I have a couple of sites where there are no hydrants but the guys drive down the road, switch on for 10-20 mins and then theres sufficient to do the building.

I am based near Milton keynes and at one time was driving to Bristol towing a 2000 litre bowser on a discovery. I had two of these and they were just destroyed in a short time.

I have said you can get water for nothing and it is possible but I would advise that you speak to the local water authority.
Usually one of there biggest concerns is that you will infect the water supply with some chemical or other so you need to use a hydrant with a non return valve. Again the water authority may recommend something.  I am not familiar with the ionics system
but would have thought that any membrane would be capable of operating under mains pressure.

[poles apart]

Thanks for that. I'll ring Reuben tomorrow to see if my RO's will take mains pressure, if they don't I'll get back to you for your supplier.

cheers
Rod

[Ian_Giles]

15 litres a minute is a tad excessive, hell, so is 5 litres a minute
I use up to 2.7l on occasions and I find it hard to work fast enough to keep up with that flowrate.
A very high flow rate may be ok on the huge, all glass type buildings you can see on some of the new industrial sites, and on those building with masses of glass and relatively easy access, not so hot for a standard semi with flower pots, steps, flower beds and so on to negociate.

Also thses hydrants are not on the corner of every house either.

On smallish jobs, you would lose time connecting up, easier to open the van door, grab hose, walk up drive and clean windows.
Average semi only takes 10 minutes anyway and you really can only work so fast.

But good for you Bull, you have made it work for you, very few people will earn the sort of money you do, they can aspire to it of course, but thats different.

For most of us its easier to carry the water we need around with us, and there is therefore no point having an R/O system that can produce up to 15l a minute.

I'm using no more than 250-300l a day at the moment, max.
When it gets to the point that I am using 400-500 litres a day I'll upgrade the R/O to a system that will deliver what I need.

I just don't have the kind of work that would justify the system you have detailed though Bull, don't think many on here would either.
And those 6 membranes are bloody expensive too!!
Just 1 is pretty pricey!


Ian

[bullstopshere]

15 litres a minute is a tad excessive, hell, so is 5 litres a minute
I use up to 2.7l on occasions and I find it hard to work fast enough to keep up with that flowrate.
A very high flow rate may be ok on the huge, all glass type buildings you can see on some of the new industrial sites, and on those building with masses of glass and relatively easy access, not so hot for a standard semi with flower pots, steps, flower beds and so on to negociate.

Also thses hydrants are not on the corner of every house either.

On smallish jobs, you would lose time connecting up, easier to open the van door, grab hose, walk up drive and clean windows.
Average semi only takes 10 minutes anyway and you really can only work so fast.

But good for you Bull, you have made it work for you, very few people will earn the sort of money you do, they can aspire to it of course, but thats different.

For most of us its easier to carry the water we need around with us, and there is therefore no point having an R/O system that can produce up to 15l a minute.

I'm using no more than 250-300l a day at the moment, max.
When it gets to the point that I am using 400-500 litres a day I'll upgrade the R/O to a system that will deliver what I need.

I just don't have the kind of work that would justify the system you have detailed though Bull, don't think many on here would either.
And those 6 membranes are bloody expensive too!!
Just 1 is pretty pricey!


Ian

You are entirely right. This system is only practical on large buildings and where significant travel is necessary and would be pointless on domestics. I should have made it clearer.
Regards

[Roy Harding]

My 4 x 40 R/o will produce 11.11ltrs a minute at 80psi.

So six times that would be 66.66ltrs a minute, Whoosh have some of that.

Roy

[g_griffin]

I also have an Aston  .

                  Gerry.

[g_griffin]

I mean Astra  .

                Gerry.

[poleman]

Mr Bull

I agree that you can fill up that fast as I have a static system that works on 17'000gdp or 1000 lts a hour a 40 mins, I have seen your system (or Similar) on ebay. I cant see window cleaners running around from stand pipe to stand pipe in the day and rushing off to clean windows that fast with that amount of water (flow rate on window), its down right dangers for the Industry.

Andy

[matt]

The advantages of this are that I am driving a relatively empty van around, none of the risks associated with tanks flying around and having to crash test etc. It also saves a lot of fuel. Driving around with a 1000 litres of water does nothing for fuel consumption and wear and tear of brakes and gearboxes, tyres etc.

I have the accounts and the Aston to prove it.

i bet wear and tear of brakes and gearboxes, tyres etc on a Aston van costs a fair bit 

[kaizen]

Did I say Aston ? I meant Austin..

[kaizen]

Mr Bull

I agree that you can fill up that fast as I have a static system that works on 17'000gdp or 1000 lts a hour a 40 mins, I have seen your system (or Similar) on ebay. I cant see window cleaners running around from stand pipe to stand pipe in the day and rushing off to clean windows that fast with that amount of water (flow rate on window), its down right dangers for the Industry.

Andy

Andy

Theres no running involved. Just hook up on site, start work immediately and an hour later switch off and continue working with the 1000 you have left. We try and estimate the water requirement so that it travels back home empty so the only driving under load is done whilst moving around the site.

What is the difference between standing under a window for 1 minute rinsing with 3 litres a minute or 10 seconds with 18 lpm. Same amount of water just moving faster.
How dangerous is that ?

[poleman]

Being a experience user a WFP (over 4 years) on many small and very large commercial sites only, most of the sites your WFP system would not work 1/ no out side taps and hose would be a tripe hazed running thought a building and would also take up to much time even if the site health and safety officer would permit this?
2/ throwing that amount of water would be a/ to much water in the area, WFP user have to be careful with a small amount of water in the winter, 5 times that would be a nightmare (ice) b/ the tripe hazed involved in moving a hose, your self and a high flow rate over a never easy commercial site conditions, would render your WFP useless in a site Risk Assessment           


Andy

[matt]

1/ no out side taps and hose would be a tripe hazed running thought a building

b/ the tripe hazed involved in moving a hose

Andy

You should also watch out for offal hazzards  :

i couldnt resist it

[poleman]

Watch it you

[Peter Fogwill]

What is the difference between standing under a window for 1 minute rinsing with 3 litres a minute or 10 seconds with 18 lpm. Same amount of water just moving faster.
How dangerous is that ?

I preferred to stand under a window for 10 secs using around 1/6th of a Litre of water. This amount was plenty.

I recon it won't be too long before the government start taxing us for the amount of water we use as it is, never mind if we were all using 18LPM.  They are probably waiting on all the window cleaners changing over to wfp before they introduce yet another tax.

Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com

[bullstopshere]

Your missing the point - I'm not using any more water than anyone else per window- just cleaning more of them in the same time .

No wonder this industry moves so slowly - I remember the same attitude
12 years ago when OTT (Ionics) introduced the Tucker Pole.

It will never catch on will it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bullstopshere]

I have an open mind Bull. Its been a very  interesting topic.
How many litres would you guesstimate you use to flush, lets say an average 1 pane window of 1 metre sq. ?

Hi jeff

I wouldnt like to guess for fear of being way out but I can only relate my experience and ask the following questions.

Does it take more paint to paint a wall with a bigger brush or the same amount of paint but just faster ?

I have many years experience in pressure washing , specifically UHP using pressures up to 40,000 psi and using pumps that will flow 200 lpm for washing such things as Runways. The principals of cleaning remain the same, its a balance between pressure for cleaning and flow for productivity.

The amount of water required to clean a window can be the same but if you deliver it faster then you stand in the same place for less time, therefore the amount of water "wasted" to drain would be relative. I used to use a 1000 a day for a week and now use 2500 a day for 2 days. 

Another huge advantage for me has been jobs that required 2-3 days work being 50 miles away. By now sending 4 staff they can achieve this in one day. The savings are significant.

I appreciate your comments and recognise that many of the guys on here have invested hard earned cash to buy what they have been told is the "best" system and that accepting that there may be something better is difficult. I have no product to sell and nothing to gain from explaining why it works but without any doubt if you put this system with the same operator against a standard system you would see an increase in productivity. When I started with this one I had jobs that were borderline profitable that subsequently became big earners.

This industry is notorious for attracting many many new people to it when they are looking for franchises and new ways of self employemnt. The result over the years has been that companies such as my own that I would describe as mid ranged find it harder to compete with the 1 and 2 man bands because of overheads, offices, sales force etc and that without looking for a faster method we will be left behind.

Regards

Bull
I

[Peter Fogwill]

No I don't think I am.  A window needs a certain amount of water to be cleaned.  Three or more times that amount of water would neither make the window cleaner, or allow it to be cleaned quicker.  If anything too much water would cause problems with lower windows.

Peter

[Peter Fogwill]

Does it take more paint to paint a wall with a bigger brush or the same amount of paint but just faster ?

I agree with the bigger brush being faster but I don't think it is relevant to the discussion unless you are using a bigger brush.


Peter