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Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9022
van being chipped
« on: February 27, 2012, 08:14:31 pm »
pro's and con's please.



been quoted approx £200 is it worth it,can it do any damage in the long run.


spruce you will give a top answer i know ;)

spongebob

  • Posts: 433
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 08:18:24 pm »
pro's and con's please.



been quoted approx £200 is it worth it,can it do any damage in the long run.


spruce you will give a top answer i know ;)

I had medium fries for 99p in macdees today. Quite salty but dont think they'll do any real damage in the long run ;D

Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9022
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 08:20:06 pm »
pro's and con's please.



been quoted approx £200 is it worth it,can it do any damage in the long run.


spruce you will give a top answer i know ;)

I had medium fries for 99p in macdees today. Quite salty but dont think they'll do any real damage in the long run ;D
ive already seen what that done to you,you fat as-s

Mike_G

  • Posts: 1500
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 08:23:23 pm »
What mileage is on your van? Lower the better if you are getting it chipped. If its not fairly low its not supposed to be worth it. A friend of mine who works in the trade always gets his cars chipped. But as with everything there are good and bad chips, and I couldn't tell which are the good uns!

AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 08:25:35 pm »
There's normally different maps available, some offering better fuel, some better torque or bhp. The more extreme you go, the more strain can be put on the engine - make sure you keep an eye on the fluids, and service it religiously.

I wouldn't have any qualms about getting it done myself, as long as it was by a reputable engineer, not some doley doing it for cash.
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Lee GLS

  • Posts: 3844
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 08:29:30 pm »
Is it a chip, or a remap? A remap is good because it sets the ecu up to your individual engine, there aren't any negatives really, because it increases the torque and bhp, and makes the engine run more efficiently, because the increases torque with give the van more pulling power without detriment to the economy.

Like any vehicle though, if you keep flooring the van due to the increase in power you will you more fuel, but for normal driving, the power will increase and sometimes the economy improves too.


matthewprice

  • Posts: 757
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 08:34:05 pm »
what is chiped  ;D thanks

AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 08:39:36 pm »
Chipped is for older style engines, where a microchip is plugged or soldered onto the engine ECU, a remap is for more modern cars, and consists of plugging a computer system into the cars OBD port (normally somewhere around the steering wheel), downloading the running software, and either amending it, or uploading a 'stock' map to offer the benefits mentioned.

The idea is that because a large proportion of drivers dont look after their engines as well as they should, they are purposefully detuned a bit to allow more leeway, not running the engine to its capacity - a remap or chip puts the actual performance a bit closer to the actual capabilities.

Clear as mud?  :)
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Dave Willis

Re: van being chipped
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2012, 08:40:02 pm »
Had a massive chip on mine the other week.

Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9022
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 08:41:37 pm »
What mileage is on your van? Lower the better if you are getting it chipped. If its not fairly low its not supposed to be worth it. A friend of mine who works in the trade always gets his cars chipped. But as with everything there are good and bad chips, and I couldn't tell which are the good uns!
64k mike,this is not from a back street garage,but from someone who know his stuff and does racing cars/lorrys etc.and come highly recommend

will i see a increase in what i get in fuel per mile

matthewprice

  • Posts: 757
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 08:42:11 pm »
thanks

Mike_G

  • Posts: 1500
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2012, 09:34:07 pm »
What mileage is on your van? Lower the better if you are getting it chipped. If its not fairly low its not supposed to be worth it. A friend of mine who works in the trade always gets his cars chipped. But as with everything there are good and bad chips, and I couldn't tell which are the good uns!
64k mike,this is not from a back street garage,but from someone who know his stuff and does racing cars/lorrys etc.and come highly recommend

will i see a increase in what i get in fuel per mile

You should getter better mpg and better acceleration, basically it should be more responsive to drive. Ask the guy what he thinks is decent mileage to get a vehicle chipped, as I said earlier the lower the better

bad trippy

  • Posts: 3268
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2012, 09:40:49 pm »
Boy racer  ;D
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Spruce

  • Posts: 8430
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2012, 09:55:13 pm »
Is it a chip, or a remap? A remap is good because it sets the ecu up to your individual engine, there aren't any negatives really, because it increases the torque and bhp, and makes the engine run more efficiently, because the increases torque with give the van more pulling power without detriment to the economy.

Like any vehicle though, if you keep flooring the van due to the increase in power you will you more fuel, but for normal driving, the power will increase and sometimes the economy improves too.



Hi,

I think that Lee has summed this up well overall, but I would like to add a little if I may.

The manufacturers of diesel engines allow plenty of performance leeway to make sure their engines are always safe to run in countries with poor diesel quality - like in some countries in Africa where they add other cheaper fuel to the imports to reduce foreign currency outgoings. So there is room to play with settings in the UK as we have a good quality diesel, especially when bought from Shell, BP, Total & Esso.

A chip is a very cheap resistor with a couple of plugs and sockets in a box sold at an expensive price with all sorts of performance and economy claims, most of which aren't true. These chips usually 'interrupt the engine temperature sensor and distort it's readings to the ECU. The ECU is fooled into running different engine and turbo boost settings. Most chipped engines will use more diesel when driven hard, but the claim is that when cruising the engine will use less. They also can be removed and the engine returned to standard without any computer indication/record that they were ever there.

Using additional turbo boost to increase performance is also used by the manufacturers. VW used it on the 1.9 TDi engines and Citroen/Peugeot used it on their 1.6Hdi 90hp engines to rebadge them as 110hp engines, but this turbo boost or turbo over-boost as it was called only became effective in third gear.
I notice that the new 110 hp Transit Connect uses the same 'technology' which costs you an additional £350.00 + VAT.

As Lee mentioned there is also a remap service available which reprogrammes the engine's ECU. This is a better way of doing it but also has it's draw backs. If your vehicle has to go back to the main dealers for a fault code diagnoses they will immediately know that the engine as been modified. You will be probably be charged for reprogramming the ECU back to factory specs before they can fault find.*

Should the vehicle be involved in an accident, the insurance companies are very hot on looking for chipped diesel engines, and undeclared chipped units or remaps could invalidate any insurance claim.

Every time you use extra boost on a turbo you put additional stress on your turbo and engine which will reduce it's life. The difference between the over-boost situation employeed by the manufacturers and a chip/remap is that the overboost was only in third gear, whereas chips of remaps, overboost and over fueling occurs all the time.

Remaps and chips invalidate the vehicle's warrantee, reason in itself to consider upgrading very carefully.

Unfortunately you won't know if the remap you bought was good or not until many miles down the line, and its very difficult to prove that early engine failure was a result of it.

However, my mind always works overtime in this department. The Citroen Xsara was the first car I had experience with that came out in both 90 and 110hp motors. On the outside the 110 unit had an intercooler but the performance difference between the two was very significant. We have a 110 hp Xsara and the responsiveness of the engine is way ahead of the 90hp engine in my Relay or the 90hp car I used to have as a company car. I don't believe its all down to the intercooler, and for interests sake I have tried to find out why there is such a difference in performance. The engines also last well, and I've seen some for sale on Ebay with 175 to 230k.
I can also confirm from experience that there was hardly any difference in fuel consumption between both engines, so more power doesn't necessarily mean better fuel consumption when cruising.

Spruce.

edited. Landrover played this game a couple of years ago. You could buy a UK spec Range Rover in Europe cheaper than in the UK. The Disco 3 had numerous additional computer features which were part of the spec that was sold in Europe but not in the UK. One main issue was that of the Wabesto auxillary heater. In  Europe there was additional software included that would allow its owner to activate the heater at a set time in the morning, say half an hour before he usually got in the car to go the work, so when he got to his vehicle it was already prewarmed, defrosted and comfortable to drive in.
 
If you purchased a Disco 3 from Europe and took it into the main agents here for service, the UK agents would immediately reprogramme the vehicle to UK specs even if you requested them not to - and they charged for the service.

Some owners tried to argue with Landrover UK over it but it fell on deaf ears. A lot of owners didn't even bother but just slipped over to the nearest Landrover garage in France and reprogrammed the ECU back to European specs. If I remember correctly this garage employed a couple of mechanics who just reprogrammed UK Discos all day long.
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AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2012, 09:57:33 pm »
Oh yeah, you should notify your insurance company (although if its remapped as opposed to chipped I doubt they'd ever be able to find out).
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Lee GLS

  • Posts: 3844
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2012, 10:05:25 pm »
If you want a really good remap these guys are great http://vantuner.co.uk/

Re: van being chipped
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2012, 08:21:57 pm »
Should the vehicle be involved in an accident, the insurance companies are very hot on looking for chipped diesel engines, and undeclared chipped units or remaps could invalidate any insurance claim.


Can the insurers tell if it has been remapped? I didnt think they could.

 I have now had 3 cars remapped, i was positive about them, but not had the best experiences to be fair.

Volkswagen Passat 2005 1.9tdi eco and power remap, remapped from 130 to about 160bhp.  115,000 miles up to 162,000.  Turbo went on it at 145,000, likely due to the increased pressure on it, though at that mileage it was probably ready for a redo anyway.  Smoked less after it was chipped.  Economy same, but went like a rocket.  Possibly slightly less economy when towing 1.5 ton caravan.  Had flywheel judder at lower revs when accelerating hard.

Mitsubish Outlander 2.2 DiD, eco and power mix remap from 155bhp to about 185bhp.  According to on board computer economy 20% better, though i feel they fiddled with the read out of the car to make it look better.  Couldnt see much imprrovement on the economy from tank filling.  Person who put map on queried me as to whether the clutch was slipping which i felt was strange.  It was fine though.  However after 6 months it suddently started slipping.  Took it to mitsubishi, who plugged it to their computer, but could not see if it was remapped or not.??  Did a software update, which thankfully removed the map.  Clutch no longer slips, but not fun to drive anymore :(  Boring.....i want a bigger engine now!  Now i have it removed off the outlander, the turbo lag is extremely noticeable.  

Volkswagen Caddy 2005 1.9 tdi, went for an economy remap on this one, from 104bhp to about 124bhp, i did not want increased power, but apparently you get it anyway, even with the "economy" remaps.  No change to enonomy either way, but goes like a rocket now.  Smokes slightly.  The flywheel judders, though it was on the way our already, so when i get it changed will change it from the dual mass (can be problematic on VW's) to solid state flywheel.  Got my money back on this chip as not happy with it, and the bloke left it on for me so it still goes well, just no benefit to economy, which was what i wanted it for.  I do the same run, 70 miles, every window cleaning day, on the same motorway, at the same speeds, so had good basis for comparison.  What helps economy most is the warmer weather!!

Had a Kawasaki Ninja 600 that was dyno jetted, which increased power, and decreased slightly economy which is the next best thing to remapping a vehicle without a programmable cpu that uses carbs etc instead!  Got 162mph out of it too.......  Akrapovik exhaust, she was the bees knees...... I miss my baby!!

So even though i love getting my vehicles chipped, i would be wary.  THe VW Golf tdi's come in 130 and 150bhp, and all the difference that i am aware is that they are mapped differently, the physical car is the same.  Yet many "chippers" i think increase torque and power to substantially, which will wear out the drive train quicker.  So be ware!  

All decent remap companies offer money back service so you get a chance to see if you are happy with it, and most can tailer it to your needs should you want less power at certain rev bands etc.  

AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2012, 09:38:47 pm »
I've worked in dealerships with bodyshops dealing with damaged cars and insurance total loss, and I've never once heard of an insurance company asking for a car to be hooked up to a computer to check the ECU, it would only add money onto their bill for the diagnostic charge!
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Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9022
Re: van being chipped
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2012, 09:50:39 pm »
thanks for all the pros and con. :D :D


we be asking a few question  :)

Dave Willis

Re: van being chipped
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2012, 07:46:23 am »
I had a look on the internet following this thread and there seems to be loads of products and claims out there from remapping to simply plugging in a chip yourself or posting your ecu off for an update. Lots of different prices too. Very confusing.
Wouldn't mind a bit more umpff and fuel economy from my Toyota Hiace but it's pretty low geared so don't know what the difference would be.
115 bhp Renault Trafic I hired was much quicker than my 90bhp Toyota even though I have a much bigger engine.