[john martin]

For anyone interested 

 Just looking into how confusion arises with various similar looking  Ametek motors costing from 55 on e-bay to 200 from some suppliers .

Firstly there is only  'Ametek'  any other spelling of it anywhere is likely a misprint .

Ametek is a huge company with lots of subsidiaries ,  vac/motors being one of them .

Motors described as ' Lamb Ametek ' are now produced in Mexico  ...
Lamb were a motor manufacturer based in Ohio . Ametek bought the company in the 50's and vac motors were developed and made in ohio up until a few years ago .
In the 90's ametek needed to expand and supply the European OEM  vac and motor market ,so they did as they did before ,  they bought over two electric motor plants in Italy .  Ametek vacs are now produced there also .

I had to look it up on maps ..
http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Via+De+Gasperi+18%2FA+26010+Ripalta+Cremasca+Cremona,+26010&hl=en&ll=45.337607,9.668527&spn=0.011463,0.027595&sll=53.401034,-8.307638&sspn=4.979931,14.128418&hnear=Via+Alcide+De+Gasperi,+18,+26010+Ripalta+Cremasca+Cremona,+Lombardia,+Italy&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=45.337888,9.668436&panoid=ZazFLsGpND3bJVgc6rZoCA&cbp=12,327.27,,2,1.75


This explains the £55 ones on e-bay , described as  Ametek Italia .
But really they should be identical to the mexican ones . 

[john martin]

 
... Seems the do a nice little Porty pump too

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ametek-Italia-ITT-150psi-230V-High-Efficiency-Pump-/170739487030?pt=UK_Vacuum_Cleaner_Bags_Parts&hash=item27c0ddd136

[Colin Day]

You have a very odd obsession with motors....

The cheaper motors are awful in comparison to the proper motors.
By that, I mean that there is nothing to them, they just feel cheap.
A bit like Beans.... I suppose there is a link there, Aldi beans make you fart just as much as Heinz Beans...

But which ones make you fart better.....?

We'll see how this £55 motor survives, I'll keep you all posted.....  

[john martin]

You have a very odd obsession with motors....

The cheaper motors are awful in comparison to the proper motors.
By that, I mean that there is nothing to them, they just feel cheap.
A bit like Beans.... I suppose there is a link there, Aldi beans make you fart just as much as Heinz Beans...

But which ones make you fart better.....?

We'll see how this £55 motor survives, I'll keep you all posted.....  

Now , your feeding my obsession   

I have one here now ... the metal bits are ... metal ..  the blower cover is same any other ... removing the plastic , all looks well made ... what is the difference ?
If you have pics , put em up .  That said , there are different models so ye need to compare like with like .

[john martin]

You have a very odd obsession with motors....

The cheaper motors are awful in comparison to the proper motors.
By that, I mean that there is nothing to them, they just feel cheap.
A bit like Beans.... I suppose there is a link there, Aldi beans make you fart just as much as Heinz Beans...

But which ones make you fart better.....?

We'll see how this £55 motor survives, I'll keep you all posted.....  

My Italian model with top off .... 

isn't it a thing of beauty 

http://i41.tinypic.com/10gbsph.jpg

[Colin Day]

Buy a Bosche windscreen wiper then buy a GM one for the same car... If you can say there's no difference, you may as
well give up now.

I'm an ex aircraft mechanic amongst other things and can appreciate how things are built. The quality of these £55 motors
are crap. Take it from someone with experience....

[john martin]

Buy a Bosche windscreen wiper then buy a GM one for the same car... If you can say there's no difference, you may as
well give up now.

I'm an ex aircraft mechanic amongst other things and can appreciate how things are built. The quality of these £55 motors
are crap. Take it from someone with experience....

ex lab QC scientist ... among other things    I say its all good ..
Give me specifics ...
hmm ... an aircraft mechanic should be able to build a nice machine for himself 

[Jim_77]

I'm an ex-gynaecologist, but I still like to keep my hand in...

[john martin]

 
Useful if you own a jag ... hand in deep ... clear the gunk   

[Colin Day]

Useful if you own a jag ... hand in deep ... clear the gunk   

 

You don't half come out with some crap, it's your mouth that needs cleared of gunk....

[Ian Gourlay]

Colin

As you have a new machine and you had a new one before that what is your personal experience with the £55 motor.

Personally I do find it confusing as there are Heavy Duty onces in the Ninja and a non heavy duty

Then Woodbridge have one called Ametec which at one stage they did spell with K which makes me wonder if the £55 john referrers too is from the pucker manufacturer.

Indeed Woodbridge used to do an Italian one for this price  and they lasted as long as others.


Then there are 1200 watt three stage and 1500 watt three stage i presume the 1500w performs better   but if you put two together with a pump will you trip the switch

Then there are onces that are sealed designed to help prevent form problem is the £55 one sealed?
Problem is onces we start taking are machines to bits we start changing specifications and performance   but unless you have test equipment you cannot measure as it stills sucks water

[john martin]

Colin

As you have a new machine and you had a new one before that what is your personal experience with the £55 motor.

Personally I do find it confusing as there are Heavy Duty onces in the Ninja and a non heavy duty

Then Woodbridge have one called Ametec which at one stage they did spell with K which makes me wonder if the £55 john referrers too is from the pucker manufacturer.

Indeed Woodbridge used to do an Italian one for this price  and they lasted as long as others.


Then there are 1200 watt three stage and 1500 watt three stage i presume the 1500w performs better   but if you put two together with a pump will you trip the switch

Then there are onces that are sealed designed to help prevent form problem is the £55 one sealed?
Problem is onces we start taking are machines to bits we start changing specifications and performance   but unless you have test equipment you cannot measure as it stills sucks water

The difference between a 1200w and a 1500w is ....

1200w has 95 cfm , 115" lift , about 350 air watts
1500w has 95 cfm , 137"lift  , about 450 air watts

The heavier motor has more lift ...  this may be what Ashbys refer to as  ' heavy duty '

I have no idea what woodbridge are up to with their ' Ametec ' with a 'c'
its possible they found another even cheaper source and made the name up themselves . Certainly the 1400w watt woodbridge model does not look like the Ametek ilalia i have .

In practice you really dont trip with two 1500w +pump on one cord ...
its the Americans that cant put two vacs on one cord @ 120v

If you take Ashbys enforcer as an example ... they have a 3000w built in steammate on cord one and on cord two they have twin vacs + pump and the option of pumpout pump + remote control .

Actually looking at the Enforcer it is probably one of the best built machines out there .... compare the design and build quality to a certain US machine , no comparison ( ah come on Colin just look at it   )
But you rarely hear mention of it on this or other forums ...

I bet if they fitted two of Ameteks new 8.4 motors ( same mounting as 7.2) wouldn't have to redesign ... and perhaps switch to a parallel configuration ...
They would instantly have the most powerfull ( 145" lift  290 cfm  1400 airwatts )
and probably the best built twinvac machine in the UK . 

Also wonder why the likes of Ashbys , extracta , alltec dont have a presence on forums like this ... on the US forums if you mention any feature of a particular  machine a representative pops up .
 

[Colin Day]

Colin

As you have a new machine and you had a new one before that what is your personal experience with the £55 motor.

Personally I do find it confusing as there are Heavy Duty onces in the Ninja and a non heavy duty

Then Woodbridge have one called Ametec which at one stage they did spell with K which makes me wonder if the £55 john referrers too is from the pucker manufacturer.

Indeed Woodbridge used to do an Italian one for this price  and they lasted as long as others.


Then there are 1200 watt three stage and 1500 watt three stage i presume the 1500w performs better   but if you put two together with a pump will you trip the switch

Then there are onces that are sealed designed to help prevent form problem is the £55 one sealed?
Problem is onces we start taking are machines to bits we start changing specifications and performance   but unless you have test equipment you cannot measure as it stills sucks water

I like to keep my hand in with engineering, though on a much smaller scale than I was used to.
I maintain/service and fix machine's for other carpet cleaners in my spare time and only use
genuine Lamb Ametek motors. The last machine I fixed was where the operator provided his own £55
motor. To all intents and purpose, it looks alright but feels cheap. At the moment, all's well, but I'd put £55
on that it won't last a year....

[AJB]

The ones they sell at £59.99 are cheaper motors,
they may be owned by Lamb Ametek, but they are
a lower standard motor.
They look like the old Hi-Trak motors with a metal
horn fitted. If they are as reliable as the old Hi-Traks
were then they are a good buy. But there is only one
way to tell, and that's to try them.

The ones they sell at £69.99 are Lamb Ametek 1200w.

My Powrflite runs 2 x 117123 1500w Lamb Ametek, and
a 1/2 hp pumptec 205v on one lead, never had tripping
problems.

[Paul Redden Countryfresh]

I have just bought some mexican genuine heavy duty 3 stage for £100 no vat 

[Kinver_Clean]

Quite a few machines I have had in draw 14.5 A. This is why it is a good idea to have spare 13 A fuses in the van as they get warm and go eventually.
The socket will be rated at 25+ for both side so a bit of overload on one side will not hurt as long as the plug lasts.

[graham banks]

As an engineer with 45 years experience and a lot of contact with our US friends in the machine industry, There is no doubt in my mind that the Genuine Lamb Ametek has never been beaten by any other company...worldwide.
The quality and consistency in manufacture is second to none, however the best units are either US made or those assembled in Mexico.
Since the most popular size used in machines for the European market is 5.7" 3 stage with tangential discharge, my prefered unit is the 117123-13 which has an aluminium body and horn, is 1500 watts and has.an air bearigs......better but not perfect for wet use.
That said I buy mine by the palet load direct from the US...........not interested in the "Italian job" or those made in Czechoslovakia
Hope this helps the doubters who think that cheap represents value for money

[john martin]

As an engineer with 45 years experience and a lot of contact with our US friends in the machine industry, There is no doubt in my mind that the Genuine Lamb Ametek has never been beaten by any other company...worldwide.
The quality and consistency in manufacture is second to none, however the best units are either US made or those assembled in Mexico.
Since the most popular size used in machines for the European market is 5.7" 3 stage with tangential discharge, my prefered unit is the 117123-13 which has an aluminium body and horn, is 1500 watts and has.an air bearigs......better but not perfect for wet use.
That said I buy mine by the palet load direct from the US...........not interested in the "Italian job" or those made in Czechoslovakia
Hope this helps the doubters who think that cheap represents value for money

No doubt you know what you are talking about and for good reason will stick with your tried and tested units and distributors but i wonder if quality is as much perceived as it is based on the actual build quality of some of these motors .

Firstly there is no American built lamb Ametek  anymore , the only motors made in America now are by ' electro motors '  who produce the 'Lighthouse brand '  these are now used in some of Mytees higher performance machines ... theyre conical fanned 5.7 produces 650 airwatts as distinct from 450 from the lamb ametek  117123-13 for example.

Ameteks now come from either Mexico or Italy and even if there is variation in model specs they are the one company .

The one you have no time for from Czechoslovakia are Domel made in Slovenia ...
now ... they are the biggest Vac manufacturer in the world  ... half the central vacs produced are Domel ...  and if you look at the quality 'Perception ' of Domel in the US ... it seems they take on the sort of prestige we afford to ' American ' Lamb ...
For example ...
http://thinkvacuums.blogspot.com/2009/10/domel-central-vacuum-motors.html

http://www.thinkvacuums.com/beam/centralvacuummotors.htm

[john martin]

Colin

As you have a new machine and you had a new one before that what is your personal experience with the £55 motor.

Personally I do find it confusing as there are Heavy Duty onces in the Ninja and a non heavy duty

Then Woodbridge have one called Ametec which at one stage they did spell with K which makes me wonder if the £55 john referrers too is from the pucker manufacturer.

Indeed Woodbridge used to do an Italian one for this price  and they lasted as long as others.


Then there are 1200 watt three stage and 1500 watt three stage i presume the 1500w performs better   but if you put two together with a pump will you trip the switch

Then there are onces that are sealed designed to help prevent form problem is the £55 one sealed?
Problem is onces we start taking are machines to bits we start changing specifications and performance   but unless you have test equipment you cannot measure as it stills sucks water

I like to keep my hand in with engineering, though on a much smaller scale than I was used to.
I maintain/service and fix machine's for other carpet cleaners in my spare time and only use
genuine Lamb Ametek motors. The last machine I fixed was where the operator provided his own £55
motor. To all intents and purpose, it looks alright but feels cheap. At the moment, all's well, but I'd put £55
on that it won't last a year....

'Feels cheap' lacks any scientific credibility , its a bit like saying my vacuum ' feels' strong without backing it up with data .

Also the machine you installed into can make a huge difference to the life of the vac ... for eg ... some of the old clamshells has poor ventilation and no venting to the vac intake ...
also the operator general care during use and basic mantainence  would be a factor . Will be hard to generalize about the vac in question based on one install .

[Colin Day]

Colin

As you have a new machine and you had a new one before that what is your personal experience with the £55 motor.

Personally I do find it confusing as there are Heavy Duty onces in the Ninja and a non heavy duty

Then Woodbridge have one called Ametec which at one stage they did spell with K which makes me wonder if the £55 john referrers too is from the pucker manufacturer.

Indeed Woodbridge used to do an Italian one for this price  and they lasted as long as others.


Then there are 1200 watt three stage and 1500 watt three stage i presume the 1500w performs better   but if you put two together with a pump will you trip the switch

Then there are onces that are sealed designed to help prevent form problem is the £55 one sealed?
Problem is onces we start taking are machines to bits we start changing specifications and performance   but unless you have test equipment you cannot measure as it stills sucks water

I like to keep my hand in with engineering, though on a much smaller scale than I was used to.
I maintain/service and fix machine's for other carpet cleaners in my spare time and only use
genuine Lamb Ametek motors. The last machine I fixed was where the operator provided his own £55
motor. To all intents and purpose, it looks alright but feels cheap. At the moment, all's well, but I'd put £55
on that it won't last a year....

'Feels cheap' lacks any scientific credibility , its a bit like saying my vacuum ' feels' strong without backing it up with data .

Also the machine you installed into can make a huge difference to the life of the vac ... for eg ... some of the old clamshells has poor ventilation and no venting to the vac intake ...
also the operator general care during use and basic mantainence  would be a factor . Will be hard to generalize about the vac in question based on one install .

I don't claim to be a scientist...

You lack credibility, full stop.. No web page, links, picture... Nothing...!


I actually thought you knew what you were on about at one stage, but you haven't got the
first idea. You use a lot of numbers which are either copied and pasted, or as I suspect, made up.

Leave the engineering to the experts, to the people who know what they are talking about...
I don't claim to be an expert whatsoever, but I do know quality when I see/feel it and I reckon
that if I gave any passer by in the street the cheap (copy) and the genuine
motor, they'd know which one was which.