[KJG]

Yes, water fed pole is without question a great tool, but what about work where it can't be used? It may be all fab on the domestic front but on the industrial/commercial scene, it ain't.

In town centres, there are lots of buildings where there are shops on the ground with offices above. These shops don't want water gushing on/in to their neon signs, stands or entrances etc.

What about work where water on the floor is a health & Safety style "fate worse than death" because of the slipping lawyers 4 U brigade? We have a lot of blocks where wfp is not allowed because of public footpaths on one or more sides. You can't sue the rain but you can sue our clients or us!

Also, it can never do insides, which nearly all commercial jobs have done. It's not very good on initial or traffic caked 6+ monthly cleans. It's a waste of time on crappy old, dusting paintwork, fried on bird poo and just certain types of glass and glass in certain locations.

Ladders will always be needed, trad will always be needed and "real" trad (ammo-swab, leather and scrim ) will always be needed.

Personally, I like a good work out on the ladders now and then. Maybe those who keep falling off the bloody things should try a different profession instead of "John Prescotting" us real window cleaners who are skilled in and embrace ALL methods.

[gary evans]

kjg

i agree with you on traditional methods are there to be used still, used right within h&s & w@h regs

Most of our work is office blocks which get internal cleaned on each visit. So people still need to be trained up, trained in ladders & w@h.

i enjoy doing traditional its a break from all the mauling with poles, but i would not go back to ladders, have invested in 3 vans & feel this was a great invention which we took on board 3 years ago & have not looked back since.

Just priced up job with nearly £400 traditional work every month good job but i dont think they realise just how much, tried saying some areas dont need so frequent, we could monitor them cleaning periodically.

But if its what they want, probably not get it, bound to be somebody to quote half that to get it.

Gary

[Jeff Brimble]

Hi KJG you have succinctly made a statement for the trad window cleaner, obiously you do not  want any help and are happy to go your own way. So you are not therefore looking for a reply or any help (which is one reason why I am here- to give something back.)
I genuinely  hope you do not become one of the statistics in 2006.

[matt]

fanatical anti-ladder knockers.

thats a bit strong init

though you wouldnt get me on ladder again, no way (saying that, i do use ladder for FOUR houses to access a flat roof)

Ive been on roofs are FOUR strorey doing roof repairs as a carpenter, and it aint pretty

[JM123]

money money money - thats why we love wfp - it stands for Wealthifying Fibreglass Pole

[Morph]

Don't knock my ladder mate! 

My knees go all wobbly if anyone does that!

[williamx]

In town centres, there are lots of buildings where there are shops on the ground with offices above. These shops don't want water gushing on/in to their neon signs, stands or entrances etc.

I don't think the shop keepers will be too pleased if the window cleaners also fall onto their neon signs as well.

[windows_chepstow]

I can't remember many recent fanatical anti-ladder posts here.

Was there?

Anyway, I think most would agree that ladders have their uses.  I wouldn't be without mine even though I have recently converted to using a WFP.

I think it's more a case of anti-WFP from lads who don't want to make the change.

[Sir Squeaky]

No we're just making the point that some of us still take the time and care to do it the professional way.

It's just defending ourselves against those who think they're superior.

They seem to think we fall off every week, but how many of us do?

As I've said before, I've gone through my round and counted more windows I couldn't wfp than ladder.

[jon adams]

kjc
ive fallen off 4 times and enjoy the adrenalin rush you get from a fall   but when im up the ladder on slippy slabs or a gusty wind im poopting myself. im converting 2 wfp now starting with an expensive resin eater di vessel but like kjc on a monday i clean shops all day, during the summer i spend 1 day a week cutting grass etc use an estate car easy 2 put ladders on  an tip grass at tip so buyin an expensive ro kit an more expensive van has disadvantages as well.

[kingfisher]

Is it just me who finds these negative  water fed pole  ladder posts boring I thought the idea of this forum was to help each other I can see nothing positive or intresting in this post

[KJG]

Is it just me who finds these negative  water fed pole  ladder posts boring I thought the idea of this forum was to help each other I can see nothing positive or intresting in this post

If you read the post properly, you will see the sentences,
"...water fed pole window is without question a great tool"
and
"...real window cleaners who are skilled in and embrace ALL methods".

I am NOT having a go at wfp, I use it myself - it's a cracking tool!
I am NOT saying ladders aren't dangerous either, of course they are.

I AM having a go at (some) wfp (users) who, in not so many words, try to make out that window cleaners who do or have to use ladders are idiots with lemming tendencies.


And in reply to Tosh1, the link on the - New Trade Association Launched (for wfp users) - post. I read it as:

Ladders = certain death, expense and people who use them are perceived as being a bit dodgy - hence this post.

[KJG]

In town centres, there are lots of buildings where there are shops on the ground with offices above. These shops don't want water gushing on/in to their neon signs, stands or entrances etc.

I don't think the shop keepers will be too pleased if the window cleaners also fall onto their neon signs as well.

I think you're getting confused with moths.

[Londoner]

OK so each to his own. I don't see that to be a problem.

About twelve years ago I went on a small business course, it wasn't much good really but the one thing I do remember was how the bloke started things off.

He said "How many different types of business can you think of ?"

"Hundreds" said one guy. "Thousands" said another.

"NO" he said "theres only one, All businesses are about making money. Everything else is just detail"

I think the ladders v WFP argument is just that. Detail.

[Jeff Brimble]

Vince thats the best "one liner"  about the argument since the boards started. What a positive gem of info.
We may all differ, so its just in the detail.

[Morph]

Tell you what....It's been snowing here, we've got a wind chill of about  -6!
With strong north easterly gusts.
The ladder is staying on the roof rack, the poles are staying in the van, I am staying in the warm........the rest is detail!  But not making money at it.

[AuRavelling79]

However as the saying goes - "The devil is in the detail"

[alansavvi]

rubbish!

Stay in the dark ages! You paint such a bad picture that is not entirely true! I have a commercial wfp company but still respect the need for trad cleaning.

Your views are bitter and badly investigated.

[Sir Squeaky]

It's not the dark ages Caustic Skoda. :

It's the skilled, accurate way of doing it, and there's more people doing it this way.

Water-Fad-pole is going to give us window cleaners a bad name.
I'm proud to tell prospective customers I do it in the time-honoured way, and they're so relieved.

[H h20]

YAAAWN,These topics are gettting very boring,just get on with the way you clean windows,if you prefer to use ladders fare enough and if wfp is the way you have chosen then great,it`s obvious that all this is doing is disagreeing and in no way is making anyone want to change,Gaz