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Neil

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2004, 06:19:38 pm »
I totaly agree
but it seems that most threads get around to the same old thing  :(
WFP politics yawn :D

Majestic

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2004, 11:46:11 pm »
Old master
Do you work for Omnipole, I just like to know who everyone is  ;) 8)

Mike_Boxall

  • Posts: 1394
Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2004, 03:06:10 pm »
Having spent some considerable time going through all the posts that Sean Rimmer and Reuben Reynolds have posted over the past couple of months I'm going to avoid anything that may be viewed as subjective and stick to the facts so that others can make an informed decision.

Sean suggested the title of this thread should have been Ionic v The rest of the industry and that Brodex had been 'singled out for special treatment'. Craig did agree that the whole issue was an industry issue and having read through all the previous posts it is clear that not until Sean admitted it was their machine they tested did Ionic give any indication of who's it was.

Having spent over 5 hours going through the whole crash test information yesterday I'd like to quote just one particular posting Dom Matrix (aka Sean Rimmer) made on Thursday 18th December which was consequently removed from the forum. This single post sums up thier side of the story.

 
"BRODEX did supply the machine in your crash test video, but never installed it. As you well know, the private investigator you sent to our company bought the machine in the hope that we would install it to the rustbucket transit, which as you correctly note was not upto carrying the payload of a HIGHFLOW machine. We checked the vinplate & model number and told your investigator, that we could not install to that van, as it would be overloaded if he filled it with water.! After consulting with Craig Mawlam, he returned next day to say he would take the machine away empty in the lightweight van (for which he could not produce a valid MOT certificate)and get his engineer brother to install. in his own roadworthy van. Your lies are as plain as the nose on your face. "

This is simply not true. I have seen the video taken by thier private detective which clearly records the whole event including negotiating the price, dropping the vehicle off on 23/1/2003 and collecting it fitted to the van on 28/1/2003. Their was no indication that Brodex questioned the payload of the van and it was confirmed when it was collected that it was full of water. We actually weighed the Brodex machine yesterday and it was 881kgs while full of water. I saw the original V5 which confirms that the van had a maximum payload of 800kgs. I saw the original MOT certificate which was still current at the time of fitting. By no stretch of the imagination could the van be classed as unroadworthy or indeed 'a rust bucket'.
     
"The Thatcham test was bought and paid for by OTT, NOT BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION INDEPENDENT TESTING. If you want an example of independent testing, ask Which magazine. They buy products and test them, photograph them, even film them. They DO NOT RECEIVE PAYMENT from the manufacturers to paint their product in a better way or even misrepresent other competitors products in a decietful manner. To set the record straight, THATCHAM DID NOT CONTROL THE CRASH TEST PROCEDURE, THEY DO NOT HAVE DATA ON THE COMPARATIVE CRASH TEST ON OUR MACHINE, BECAUSE THEY DID NOT TEST IT..! THEY MERELY FILMED AN UNINSTALLED HIGHFLOW UNIT FLYING THROUGH THE AIR, HARDLY SURPRISING AS YOU INSTALLED IT THAT WAY, WITHOUT OUR MOUNTING KIT OR CHAIN RESTRAINT SYSTEM INSTALLED AS STANDARD ON ALL HIGHFLOW VANMOUNTS . The chain restraint system that was supossed to be picked up by your detective is still sitting in the workshop...and by the way, the machine you bought is due a service...and since your company have yet to develop any industrial machines to date, I suggest you leave it to the professionals, we'll give you a special price on a full service.!
regards Sean Rimmer"


Again not true. Thatcham have provided an exceptional amount of comparative data on the crash test. When Reuben said that you needed special software to view the data I was sceptical about it. However, the data is so involved that Thatham have had to create a software program to analyse it. It contains hundreds of images from 4 different camera angles on all the tests including both the van tests and the sled tests. The Brodex machine was clearly fitted in the same way as it left them and there are sworn affidavits to confirm that the machine was not altered from the time it left them to the time it got to Thatchams.
The unit does indeed look like wasn't fitted properly because the bolts simply sheared off on impact - you can clearly see one of the bolt heads hitting the dashboard and the bracing bar underneath the van dropping off just after the impact. The floor did not give way, the unit simply failed the test.

cont.......

Mike_Boxall

  • Posts: 1394
Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2004, 03:06:47 pm »
...continued


Other claims that have been made recently include the fact that, in the van mount test, Ionics system only had 800ltrs of water in it. This is true but the video footage of the sled test clearly shows that the unit also passed with a full 1000ltr tank. There were several tests on the Ionic system at different speeds and with different capacity and the Thatcham certificate clearly states that it passed the test with a 1000kg payload. Both the Ionic and the Brodex van tests had similar payloads to demonstrate a like for like impact. Thatcham have also issued the same certificate to Pure 2o on the basis that they both use the same frame structure.

Omnipole recently commented that they thought the video had been edited and they implied that the dummy hit the windscreen. This is not the case. You can watch the impact from any number of angles and it is clear that their system did not even hit the seat. It may be that people assume this is the case beacause of the shattered windscreen which was caused by the collapse of bonnet.
 
In summary, my comments are pretty much the same as Reuben claimed when he originally replied to Seans post in December. The video evidence is unquestionable and Ionic have gone to extroadinary lengths to ensure that the whole crash test was fairly undertaken with a typical competitors installation.

It also has to be said that even though the Ionic system passed this test they have continued to develop the safety aspect of their systems including the development of new brackets that have twice the tollerance of the ones they used in the crash test.

Everyone has a right to express their opinion on this forum and it needs to be encouraged, however, a line has to be drawn when members post blatant lies. No matter how you look at it Brodex have misled members here and I can quite understand why Ionic have been so concerned about their accusations. We took the decision to remove Seans posts before because he originally joined the forum pretending to be a window cleaner and, yet again, we do not feel that Brodex should be allowed to influence others by posting in this way.

There is obviously a place in the market for Brodex equipment but my own personal view is that I seriously doubt that OCS would have favoured the them had they seen all the information I was shown yesterday. This is my opinion, others should draw their own conclusions.

Dom - 'Your lies are as plain as the nose on your face' (Sean Rimmer, Industrial Chemist 3:14pm Thurs 18th December 2003)

Mike_Boxall

  • Posts: 1394
Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2004, 04:11:43 pm »
Quote
I have also decided not to comment any further regarding the crash test issue.


Sorry, but you will not be allowed to comment! The whole purpose of my visit was to draw a line under it. It has all been said and everyone now has enough information to draw their own conclusions.

Regards

Mike Boxall

Terry_Burrows

  • Posts: 1643
Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2004, 04:32:26 pm »
;)well sumed up mike ;)

as I said in my posts before,may be we need to think
and rethink about what we do,  :-/

new ways will always move forward in a pro way ;)
I am sure the paths to wfp will be clear one day ;)

good luck to all ;)
WWW.FASTESTWINDOWCLEANER.CO.UK
GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER
BURNING RUBBER FASTER!
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF MASTER WINDOW CLEANERS.

poleman

  • Posts: 2854
Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2004, 11:02:15 pm »
                             :-/WHITE WASH :-/

g_griffin

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2004, 11:08:23 pm »
Now then, what about that?
Dom`s having a bad week. Nigeria lost the other day as well.
               
                 Gerry.

karlosdaze

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2004, 11:19:52 pm »
I'd love to see the whole video, any chance of viewing it online?

Old_Master

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2004, 03:48:38 am »
Somebody's come up smelling of Roses again

Mike_Boxall

  • Posts: 1394
Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2004, 11:38:09 am »
Quote
Somebody's come up smelling of Roses again


'Old Master'

You appear to be posting the same way as Brodex did  -anonymously, that is.

You have yet to confirm that you are actually a representative of Omnipole - is that the case or not?

If your profile is not updated today all your posts will be removed and you will not be able access this forum again.

Old_Master

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2004, 12:13:24 pm »
There are always three sides to a story :Yours,the other and the truth

highwash

  • Posts: 61
Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2004, 01:27:20 pm »
Mike- this forum has been very helpful to me in my first year of trading. when i registered i filled in the relevent fields. oops!! missed my birthdate but mentioned my age on a posting. the point of my reply is that i don't have a problem with my identity and welcome any informative mail. perhaps if the forum made it mandatory to fill in all the fields you wouldn't have to put up with the recent nonsense.
    regards - TERRY  www.highwashsystems.co.uk   born 21st June 1948

Old_Master

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2004, 02:00:38 pm »
Mike
to answer your question I do work for Omnipole and also PH Cleaning Services.
I started cleaning windows in1977 had the first and largest Graffiti removal company in the UK and have worked and advised in both  France and Sweden.
I am a commitee member of The Anti Graffiti Association run by London Underground-English and Scotish Heritage.
Built our first van mount system in 1984 which had a 1000 litre water storage tank,  27 kva generator, 3000  psi (200 bar ) steam cleaner.
We have cleaned Marble Arch, Nelsons Column etc etc
Need any more information?

STEVE71163

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2004, 02:14:54 pm »
Hi Old Master
                   Do you have a name ???

Steve

Majestic

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2004, 03:50:01 pm »
Old Master  ?
That wasnt  that hard was it , Welcome to the forum 8)
Any one else out there who wants to tell us anything  ???

jonesy5

  • Posts: 55
Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2004, 04:00:52 pm »
Hi Mike
i know brodex sounds very much in the wrong but surely he must be allowed to answer these accusations!!

karlosdaze

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2004, 04:02:46 pm »
I think he's either been barred or he's unsubscibed :o

Mike_Boxall

  • Posts: 1394
Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2004, 04:21:29 pm »
Hi Jonesy

We've already allowed him to answer - what I've quoted from Sean was his defence!

Feel free to discuss it amongst yourselves but for now I've got other priorities.

'Keep it real'  ;)

Old_Master

Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2004, 05:08:55 pm »
"What shall we do now" asked the Tortoise

" Count our blessings" said Alice