[happy mondays]

No dont do cheap digs Derek, if I am honest, which I am  I had noticed you promote that you have passed the exam and find it frustrating as a member that your web design company put a link on your site that could implie to a potential customer that you are associated with this association because you have passed the exam. Even though in some peoples eyes, means nothing at all really  Just interested to know if it means nothing to your customers who have never heard of them, your logic in promoting the ncca. Imo the small cost of membership is very reasonable for what you can get from it.
   

like i said paul, i paid good money (to the ncca, money in there bank) for a certificate, and people know what a certificate means so i'd be mad not to promote it, and in a way i'm helping the ncca get recognised. i'm not a member and don't promote that so don't see the problem. ive done 2 courses with the ncca so ive paid a lot to them. personally i think your grief should be with people that have not paid any money into the ncca kitty and still mention there name on trhere website.
i'm not doing anything wrong. ive paid my money, got a certificate and i'm marketing that certificate to my customers.

anyway, join TACCA, its free
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=168506547806

Taken from the December 2011 issue:

NCCA Name & Logo

Current full members of the NCCA  only are permitted to use the NCCA name or logo in advertising.

Both the name and logo are registered trademarks and misuse of either is considered as a copyright infringement.

Use of wording such as "trained by the NCCA" is also regarded as misuse.

The association considers all logo or name misuse as theft and has the backing of trading standards.



And about time I say, three cheers for the NCCA 

Either pay up or remove the NCCA stuff from your advertising.

[Jim_77]

I think Derek's point he was making is that he HAD paid up.. .and was still not allowed to mention it!

Imagine if you had passed a degree at Oxford University but unless you paid them £250 a year you weren't allowed to mention it!!  Stupid.

I'm right behind Derek on this, it's absolutely idiotic policy making on the NCCA's behalf.

It would make more sense if they only offered training to their members, therefore removing this problem altogether.  They could offer, for example, first year's membership at half price if you take a course.

But what do I know

[Jim_77]

I think you've missed the point

[Ian Gourlay]

They said that years ago.

Local cleaner to me is or was the enforcement Director.

[Jim_77]

Westy, (maybe you could use your real name and fill out your profile information)

You still completely miss the point so I'll try to explain it in words that aren't too complicated.

If you paid £250 a year to use the NCCA logo and had NOT been on their training courses, you could be an untrained idiot running around ruining carpets under the banner of being an NCCA member.

But having done the courses and not choosing to pay the annual membership, you are considered vermin in the eyes of NCCA.

It is a fact that the majority of experienced, long-established and skilled carpet cleaners in this country are NOT members of the NCCA.  That's because they are also sound businessmen and recognise that the NCCA gives them nothing in return for their money.

Until this industry gets a pre-requisite qualification, nationally enforced by law, without which you can not trade, this argument will rage on.

In the mean time I'm quite happy making a nice profit out of running my business in the way I see fit and ethical (I'm an affiliate member anyway, not that I give a rat's ar$e).

You've missed your vocation, you should have been a warden in WW2

"PUT THAT LIGHT OUT"

[Ian Gourlay]

They said that years ago.

Local cleaner to me is or was the enforcement Director.

Maybe they need to have a word with him/her then, and give them a kick up the a##e

It is up yo local members to report abuse , he would where possible in his own time unpaid follow it up with Trading Standards etc

[Nick Attwood]

Personally the NCCA sucks, I have a number of cleaners around me who claim and advertise to be members but most certainly are NOT!!! And the NCCA have done nowt about it!!!! "and yes they are aware"

[David_Annable]

I'm with the NCCA on this one but they need to inforce & publicise the inforcement.

Dave

[Simon Gerrard]

Use of wording such as "trained by the NCCA" is also regarded as misuse.
They cannot impose that rule upon anyone. If you are / were trained by the NCCA, in other words attended their courses, then you are perfectly entitled to say so and they can't do squat about it, just as you are entitled to say you've got a degree from Oxford. But if you add a NCCA logo to that statement then they are perfectly within their rights.

Just a shame they haven't got anything better to do with their time.
Still run by a bunch of self serving myopic idiots, I see.

Simon

[Phillip Mold]

Imagine if you had passed a degree at Oxford University but unless you paid them £250 a year you weren't allowed to mention it!!  Stupid.


But what do I know

Not a lot, check it out, with any university and most professional bodies I know of unless you are up to date with any fees due then you are NOT considered a graduate !! My dear (soon to be ex) wife spent £20,000 (Yes twenty thousand pounds) on fees for a Warwick University masters degree then we had to pay to attend the graduation ceremony, wether or not she went! 

[Neil Williams]

Someone remind me how many years NCCA have been going on about this, and yet everyone still laughs at the situation.
So they happily take the money off people where upon you attend their school of excellence, get trained by their professionals who show you how to do all aspects of carpet & upholstery cleaning in 2 days and send you on the way......BUT.....don't you dare advertise that you were trained by them (perhaps on the back of 2 days training they have a point ) unless you pay them a yearly retainer to say you've been trained by them.

Now, I understand they have their rules and it is written down as such so they may have a point in law, BUT, I bet if it went to court it would get chucked off on the basis of being plain stupid. My Lord the case in front of you is one where we are not happy about Mr X advertising he was trained by us even though he was trained by us and has a certificate to say so.....issued by us Good luck with getting an injunction with that one.

Advertising membership is different if you don't pay your yearly subscriptions by the way.

[Griffus]

Facts are facts, if you have attended / passed any form of training then this can be used as a statement of fact, as long as you don't try to mislead.

The NCCA courses are great as are the IICRC, this mainly due to having great instructors, but this and other silly 'rules' are what puts me off joining, same with the IICRC. It gives the impression that they are about nothing but making money.

I was paid up to the IICRC and still not allowed to use their logo as I had to pay more for the privilage. When I called to question they were actually quite rude and aggressive in their manner, and I was already paying them.

Another simple hard fact; not once has anyone asked if I am qualified, never mind am I a certified and paid up member of any such organisation.

Maybe if they eased off a little they would get more people signing up.............

[garry22]

Here's another fact.

The public does not understand or maybe even, give a toss about the NCCA (sadly).

It's perhaps, only a matter of time, before the far better publicised TACCA becomes the recognised "authority" in the PUBLIC'S eyes.

Who is better is irrelevant. It is who markets themselves the best... and at the moment it's TACCA that's winning hands down (and gathering momentum).

For the record, I'm a member of neither.

[Steve Chapman]

I'm a member of the ncca but still think its ridiculous that you can't mention you trained with them if actually did & paid the money, but not became a member.

They shouldn't be happy to do the exam & take the money from people if they don't want problems with it, they obviously haven't thought the whole thing through properly,


Regards
Steve

[garry22]

Totally off topic.

Great paintings Steve (canvas site).

[benny d]

I think when Watchdog on the BBC had a story about Enterprise cleaning, they didnt even know about the NCCA to ask them to be the "experts" about the said cleaning company. They had some type of lawyer who didnt even know the first thing about cleaning.

Actually, when they caught up with the boss of the said cleaning company, he answeed every question well, and wasnt at all phased with being hijacked by "Watchdog".
In fact is was probably good advertising for him.

Point is no one knows about the NCCA.
In 6 years I have probably been asked twice, maybe even once about NCCA!

[Steve Rothwell]

they are a sales tool.

And if Joe Bloggs was trained by them and has a certificate to say he was trained by them......

To put on the website and in all promotional material "trained by NCCA" is stating a fact and cannot be denied by anyone.... therefore in your words " A sales Tool"

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

I can see both sides of this West debate.

Paul is aggrieved that Derek doesn't pay but gets the same marketing benefits although he doesnt get any direct referals.

Derek is right that he has been trained by the NCCA and is entitled to state that truth.

Personally I don't think the NCCA makes enough difference either way to worry about.

Cheers

Doug

[derek west]

Just to let everyone know, TACCA will be having a training weekend in spring 2012, its open to non members and anyone attending are quite welcome to put "trained by TACCA" on there website, its all good marketting and will benefit TACCA so i'm fine with that.

[Paul Heath]

"My main aim was to try and spread the word for the NCCA "
Is this not the job of NCCA and what you membership for ??
Still we have had all this before....NCCA is not known by anyone outside the business and that has, and continues to be its biggest problem