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D.Salkeld_Ltd

  • Posts: 951
WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« on: November 27, 2005, 08:01:17 pm »
I suppose most working people ask a simular question and the answe has got to be to earn a living.  But Why Window Cleaning?

Well these are my reasons:

1.  It's the best earner I can do without any Qualifications
2.  I am my own boss
3.  I like the customers
4.  It's reletively simple to do!

Over the past couple of years no 4 has turned on its head, what with Ladder Regs and WFP and to be quite honest I am doing my head in.
I want to remain a good honest window cleaner who does a good job properly and legaly.  Now with ladder regs pointing towards WFP I am feeling like a Cowboy because I don't use WFP.
I Know I am NOT a Cowboy, I am a professional Window Cleaner, 44 years old and looking to pay of my mortgage and retire in 10 to 15 years.  I have a lovely wife and a good 16 yr old daughter we are both proud of.
I now find myself having to spend £1000 or more on new equipment because I know I won't see my time out befor HSE ban the ladder in my trade.
My wife thinks it's crazy spending £1000 on complicated equipment when a washer and squeegee are doing quite well.  I don't blame her.
But I can see the potential!!!

PLEASE Can you guys who are in the same boat as me help me out with some usefull advise.  I plan to change over in another year, I can't afford it now, so I want to take time next year to study WFP, show my wife what it is and maybe meet a few who are using WFP so PLEASE can you colleagues help me.

Thankyou
David Salkeld
david@salkeld95.freeserve.co.uk
Not Perfect - But Honest

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2005, 09:21:03 pm »
Hi David

I read on one of your posts that you are rom Louth. I am based in Barrow On Humber not far from Barton.

I have only been in the trade for 2 years now and you have probably forgotten more about trad than I have learned. However I made the change to WFP 6 months ago on my mainly domestic work. In that time my earnings have risen by at least 30% which more than covers a grand or so outlay. More importantly though is the fact that my wife knows that I now stand a far better chance of getting home in one piece. Yres I know you are responsible re ladder safety but WFP has to be far safer. Its really very simple to set up and learn to use WFP well if you have the right info. To that end I invite you to pop over and work with me any time you like. You can't beat seeing it in real action and it might help to dispel any misgivings you have.

Either PM or email me with your number if you would like to chat about it.

Andrew

Morph

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2005, 09:23:07 pm »
Mmmm.  Confessions of a window cleaner...(the reality)

Well now David,
I am by no means the last word, but, I am into my 19th year window cleaning.
From what I read here I am in the majority, a new wfp user.
You are old enough to know that most, if not all manual skills take 3 - 5 years to master.  Trad window cleaning took me at least 3 before I could honestly say, "I know what I'm doing, I'm good at this now."  Trouble is, after many years it becomes repetitive, and you sometimes take for granted how much you have learned, until you meet a beginner and try to tell them what you are doing!  You realise how much you know about, albeit, a mundane task.

So lets start by knocking down your reasons:

1) It's the best earner without qualifications.  ???????
How long have you been cleaning windows?  If it is more than 3 years you have serious unwritten qualifications, that you have risked your life to attain.

2) You are your own boss.  ?????
Sorry to disillusion you mate but, far from it!  Now instead of only one boss, everyone is your boss!

3) I like the customers.  ????
I got news for you....They like you as long as you do what you are paid to do...If you don't, they will not like you.  Now don't go sentimental on me.

4) Sorry mate wrong again.  ???
If it is getting easy remember, it could be because: you are getting better at a difficult job, you are getting comlacent, you are getting lazy, it could all go wrong any day.

No. 4 has not exactly turned on it's head.  Ladders are no nearer becoming extinct than the paperless toilet!  Just as we need proper cleanliness in the bathroom, we need safety on the ladder.


So, there is a load of good advice on this forum.  It seems to me most are still doing their "apprenticeship".  You are in good company.
I have studied wfp for about a year, worked with a friend, done it myself for 2 weeks.  
I have learned, like everything in life, there is advice and.... advice.  You have to sort what is good for you.  You will make mistakes.  With trad w/c the mistake of a wrong purchase might cost you £20.  With wfp the mistake could cost you £200!!
But it is a big bonus tool to have in your kit.
Do not be naieve.  There are a lot of guys that just want your money.  They all believe in themselves, of course they do!
Read back posts on forums carefully...again and again, like in a library.  A useful reference, but not the last word!

If you have a wife who you can trust as your advisor, listen to her carefully.  If you can't convince her, don't bother trying to convince anyone else....(just my opinion).

finally, for now:  What would you think if someone said to you, "I've got £50 spare, is that enough to get started window cleaning?"  Well, £50 doesn't make you a windowcleaner!  But when you are a windowcleaner £50 will get you a few good bits of equipment.  Likewise, I am learning fast, £1,000 won't make you good at wfp, but learn as much as you can first at wfp, then you will soon realise you need more like £2,500 to get the kit you need.

Finally, finally...Get someone who can spell and articulate for you, so that you can promote yourself and explain yourself in print.

That's all for now, because I'm bored, and it is Sunday night.  All the best.

Pj

neil100

  • Posts: 1137
Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2005, 09:57:07 pm »
Hi david.

Your a few years younger then me, whos the lucky one. I'm 47yrs old and been w/c for 26yrs. Raised two kids who are 17 & 21yrs old.

I started w/c to earn a good living with out the stress of modern living, which invaerably comes with pressure at work. W/c great, come home balance the books,count you money and forget about it untill tommorw.

I have been contemplating switching to wfp all this year, I have researched it extensivley for 4 months and at the momment I'm just waiting for my system to be installed in a new van that I have bought.

My advice is dont feel that you have to get it. What gave me the push to start things moving was when my freind was usuing it I asked him to come round and clean my windows. It takes me 40 mins easy pace, and 90 mins if I do the frames as well.Hard work, big bay windows,awkard one at the back.

18 mins including me and the lad having a go, including frames. SOLD.

WOW I thought. Talked to some freinds who use it, The reply was the same,hated when I started,what a waste of money.But after 6 months they will never go back traditional. Speaking to one on Thursday,He said hes wanting to get rid of all is work that still requires a ladder.and he hated wfp when he started,complete change of attitude.

I have 10 freinds who w/c and I'm the eigth one to go to wfp, THe oldest are the slowest to change, A fact of life. The other 2 are older then me and one of them is watching to see how we all go.

 one young lad whos been w/c for less then 2 yrs as been wfp for 6 months on domestic work. He could earn £150 a day traditional. He now does between £300 & £400 a day.Never uses a ladder, its safe and is system cost £700.

I've told all my customers I'm going wfp Put all the prices up 20% lost £10 of work so far, But gained £80 and offer of 2 contracts.

I will be earning an extra £200 a week just by useing it. I aim by May to get an extra day a week off by being faster and hopefully less tired and an hell of a lot safer. safer.

My wife wont worry as much,because she still does even after 26 yrs of traditional w/c.

Look at the positives. Wiegh it all up, its not easy I know but in the long run you will be glad you did.

Nel

matt

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2005, 10:16:11 pm »
David

i wont post like the others

BUT i will give you my story

Im 34, a carpenter by trade, i earned good money, infact SILLY MONEY at times

i packed my job in to work part time as a carpenter, as me and the wife wanted to both work part time and raise our new daughter together, i do 3 days work, my mrs does 3 days work (in her old job)

i didnt like heights, i hate working off ladders, so i looked into WFP stuff, at the time it was 1500 quid

now i had better things to do with my money

so with the help of Jeff B and Philip, i went down the DIY route, all the same gear, just put together by me

i then helped a few others, then i found myself on here answering the same questions, so i decided on a DIY site

http://www.d.co.uk/

build your own for 550 quid

OR

i have a system on the DIY forum for sale, all built and tested for 650 quid

and then treat your family to the knowledge that you will be home safe and sound ;)

Morph

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2005, 10:46:45 pm »
David

i wont post like the others



sorry to hijack your thread, David, but, as much as I like Matt's website....
It is not definitive.

Think before you buy.
Get what is best for you.
Not what someone else thinks is best for you.
Some sites are the "spratt to catch the mackerel"
I am not referring to anyone in particular, but websites can apear very helpful , but as you know..
They are shop windows.  They are hoping you will buy from them.  Why else would you have a website?
If they don't have what you want, don't buy!

Remember,  "a fool and his money are easily parted"

This is not a comment on any particular website or system promoted here.

Pj

matt

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2005, 11:03:29 pm »
David

i wont post like the others



sorry to hijack your thread, David, but, as much as I like Matt's website....
It is not definitive.

Think before you buy.
Get what is best for you.
Not what someone else thinks is best for you.
Some sites are the "spratt to catch the mackerel"
I am not referring to anyone in particular, but websites can apear very helpful , but as you know..
They are shop windows.  They are hoping you will buy from them.  Why else would you have a website?
If they don't have what you want, don't buy!

Remember,  "a fool and his money are easily parted"

This is not a comment on any particular website or system promoted here.

Pj

Errrrrrrr

the DIY site isnt selling anything at all

Quote
They are shop windows.  They are hoping you will buy from them.  Why else would you have a website?

the DIY site was set up to help others, thats it really, you really should have a look at the thread on the forum on the site, it has helped a fair few

I wonder why i bother sometimes  ::) ::) i really do  :-\ :-\


matt

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2005, 11:07:52 pm »
Quote
sorry to hijack your thread, David, but, as much as I like Matt's website....
It is not definitive.

its not definitive  ??? ???

it doesnt claim to be

Its got a fairly good forum with  DIY answers

its helped a fair few people on here to build a system

its people like you who knock others that make the effort to  help others think "i might aswell not bother"

Morph

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2005, 11:12:31 pm »
No, not knocking you Matt

Your diy site is good.  Don't take offense.  I've used it to benefit myself.  Very helpful.  No need to think,  "Why do I bother?", because the site is effortless now. So no bother mate.  It was a kindness of you to put that together.
I'm sure you have had reward for it....

This is my way of helping others.  Just like you wanted to.  No personal gain

Pj

Power to the pole!

matt

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2005, 11:17:35 pm »
No, not knocking you Matt

Your diy site is good.  Don't take offense.  I've used it to benefit myself.  Very helpful.  No need to think,  "Why do I bother?", because the site is effortless now. So no bother mate.  It was a kindness of you to put that together.
I'm sure you have had reward for it....

This is my way of helping others.  Just like you wanted to.  No personal gain

Pj

Power to the pole!

i still try and answer the questions on the forum (here and the DIY site)

Quote
I'm sure you have had reward for it....

the only reward i have had is, the knowledge that i have helped a few people build a WFP system for a sensible price

If you mean the reward of a odd donation, its not even covered the costs of the site

anyways, im off to bed

Morph

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2005, 11:25:45 pm »
Oh well, I tried to share something of my personal experience with one, then upset another!  Hey ho!  That's life. 
Never meant to criticize anyone genuine.

I'm sure you won't lose any sleep over the likes of me Matt.

Pj

This is exactly why I delete myself from time to time, and call myself morph.

You try to help!  It all goes pear - shaped so quick!
Someone is offended as soon as you hit the keyboard. 

Night Night

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2005, 11:35:19 pm »
David.

There some great folks who have been in the trade a long time in the Grimsby area who have made the move to WFP but still use trad as and when required.

They all use different systems and I am sure that any one of them would be happy to help you in any way they can so there is plenty of help around mate.

My offer was to try and help you as a colleague and it still stands. Yes I use the Freedom trolley.. of course I do I helped to design it and have it made in grimsby so you would see that in action but I am happy to put you in touch with any of the other guys around here who use different equipment to do the job.

E mail me if you like at purefreedom@btinternet.com for my number.

Andrew

D.Salkeld_Ltd

  • Posts: 951
Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2005, 06:25:11 pm »
Thanks for your advise Chaps

Matt: Thanks for the link to your site, I ahd it before but couldn't remember the name.

Morph: Thanks for pointing out the other side of my Reasons.

Neil: 26 YEARS!! A Guru W/C comforting to meet someone in the same boat as me

Andrew:  I'll drop you an E-Mail and I'll probably pop over and see you in the spring

Thanks again chaps

David Salkeld

(20yrs in the game April next year!!)

Not Perfect - But Honest

Morph

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2005, 07:50:58 pm »
There we are, everybody's happy!

Well done David, "Oil on troubled waters".

Hope you get sorted.

Pj

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25397
Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2005, 03:47:23 pm »
and then treat your family to the knowledge that you will be home safe and sound ;)

I'm 46 with a wife and three daughters - and although I earn more, the real benefit is safety. I don't get that horrible feeling when you are three storeys up and trusting in your judgement over gravity.

Today I saw a guy with his Mondeo Estate festooned with ladders. He was doing the windows of a tall second storey house from a set of wooden ladders. It was cold, damp and a bit icy. The patio's around and about are mossy  Extremities are cold and lacking dexterity.

I thought "that was me this time last year!" - I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO HAVING TO RELY SOLEY ON LADDERS - NEVER!

If your wife is truly encouraging you to stay on ladders for the sake of £1000 I would check that she hasn't upped your life insurance recently! ;D

It's a game of three halves!

Grafters Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 1287
Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2005, 05:35:50 pm »
Hi David
First of all age does not come into it, I went wfp about 9 months ago purely for safety reasons nothing to do with H&S regs. It is fair to say that I lost 1 or 2 jobs at first but I have gained far more than I lost. 2 reasons for this firstly I am much faster now and secondly I can reach windows that trad methods will not reach.

I know it’s a bit daunting when you look at the market place for prices we all know that they are well over priced but as Matt says go down the DIY route as I did, the cost is far less (budget between £500-£600) and providing you have a basic knowledge of DIY you will be able to build one, if you come unstuck ask a question and I bet someone will be able to answer it for you.

Trust me David when I say once you have gone wfp you wont look back and as for your wife and daughter they will be safe in the knowledge that you will be back home after a days work and not risking your life up a ladder anymore. (they will thank you for it)

Hope all this helps you to make up your mind.
Jay 
JAY "GRAFTERS"
From Southampton
www.high-shine.co.uk

Paul Coleman

Re: WHY OH WHY AM I A WINDOW CLEANER!!
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2005, 05:40:53 pm »
Hi David
First of all age does not come into it, I went wfp about 9 months ago purely for safety reasons nothing to do with H&S regs. It is fair to say that I lost 1 or 2 jobs at first but I have gained far more than I lost. 2 reasons for this firstly I am much faster now and secondly I can reach windows that trad methods will not reach.

I know it’s a bit daunting when you look at the market place for prices we all know that they are well over priced but as Matt says go down the DIY route as I did, the cost is far less (budget between £500-£600) and providing you have a basic knowledge of DIY you will be able to build one, if you come unstuck ask a question and I bet someone will be able to answer it for you.

Trust me David when I say once you have gone wfp you wont look back and as for your wife and daughter they will be safe in the knowledge that you will be back home after a days work and not risking your life up a ladder anymore. (they will thank you for it)

Hope all this helps you to make up your mind.
Jay 


The last woman I lived with would have bought me a ladder as a present and sawn half way through the high rungs hoping that I didn't notice.