[mrminlfc]

ok guys please help
ive started a cleaning company and am at present very small using friends and family for office, end of tenancy and domestic cleans
got a phoncall for a builders clean quote for 14000 sq ft three story building which is out of my league as require cscs cards for all workers ect but my little brain began to work and rather than just so no and watch work go away i had the bright idea of getting quotes myself and adding on a sum that would make it worth while but i have concerns
1. i charge no vat (small new company) anyone i use would charge how to get round this
2. pitfalls i could face doing this ?!? am i biting off more than i can chew
3. sub contracting whats the risk
please help as aim to respond by monday
rich
mostran cleaning services ltd

[Darranvps]

The best way is this.
Contact me on darran@purple-rhino.co.uk

I can arrange to go and quote the building with you/for you.
We will add on top of my price the bit you want.
I invoice the client, and you invoice me.
There is a lot to consider such as CIS etc
We as a company have everything in place to clean such buildings.

[Rob_Mac]

Darran

There is no CIS  to pay on external cleaning. I never pay it!!.

Rob

[Rob_Mac]

That is presuming it is an external but rereading the post it probably is internal.

Good luck

Rob

[Darranvps]

Darran

There is no CIS  to pay on external cleaning. I never pay it!!.

Rob

Rob

There may be some internal cleaning!

Hope that you are well and keeping busy

Darran

[Darranvps]

That is presuming it is an external but rereading the post it probably is internal.

Good luck

Rob

Do you not provide internal Cleaning?

We do both in and out, up and down!

Darran

[Rob_Mac]

Darran

Internal cleaning is for girls!!!! and because it is only 14000sqm I saw it as just a small external clean, couple of hours.

That's why I let you get in there first.

I am off the scale with works in Ashford, Sevenoaks, Stroud and Welwyn Garden City. These are all manly works though!!

Rob

[Darranvps]

Rob,

We do prefer external cleaning ourselves, but often get asked for both - seeing as we are so good at it

We are doing a lot of ceiling cleans at the moment, London tomorrow, Selby on Sunday, Clacton on Monday this list goes on and on. I know how you feel.
Main difference though for me is I mainly just quote and organise my staff to do the rest

[Rob_Mac]

I like it. ;

My clients pay enough to get my saggy ar$e out of bed

Cleaned a Sainsbury's store in Clacton a couple of years ago. Has Selby got a ceiling fitted??

I'm wallowing in my own importance here

Rob

[Darranvps]

I like it. ;

My clients pay enough to get my saggy ar$e out of bed

Cleaned a Sainsbury's store in Clacton a couple of years ago. Has Selby got a ceiling fitted??

I'm wallowing in my own importance here

Rob

Drax Power Station 

[mike roberts]

The best way is this.
Contact me on darran@purple-rhino.co.uk

I can arrange to go and quote the building with you/for you.
We will add on top of my price the bit you want.
I invoice the client, and you invoice me.
There is a lot to consider such as CIS etc
We as a company have everything in place to clean such buildings.

Darren,

Bit surprised / confused ... how does the CIS scheme effect you with internal cleaning ?
as Rob has said, not required for external cleaning

Mike

[Darranvps]

The best way is this.
Contact me on darran@purple-rhino.co.uk

I can arrange to go and quote the building with you/for you.
We will add on top of my price the bit you want.
I invoice the client, and you invoice me.
There is a lot to consider such as CIS etc
We as a company have everything in place to clean such buildings.

Darren,

Bit surprised / confused ... how does the CIS scheme effect you with internal cleaning ?
as Rob has said, not required for external cleaning

Mike

Hi Mike,

Some of our customers take off 20% Tax as we are CIS registered, some don't.
It really depends on type of buildings that we are working on/in.
It is confusing as we recently did an internal builders clean at Gatwick - Airport for over 30k and they didn't take anything off.
We then did an 800 pound job in London for an office refurbishment and the client took off the 20%

We are confused as I think the customers are, but either way - Tax has been paid and I am sure it will resolve itself at the end of the Tax year.

[mike roberts]

We only carry out cleaning hence have not registered for CIS, however some clients have asked for CIS we simply explain its not required for 'cleaning only', last time we checked with revenue .... so far no probs !
prefer to have money in my back pocket 

Your accountant is going to have fun 

[Kev Martin]

The best way is this.
Contact me on darran@purple-rhino.co.uk

I can arrange to go and quote the building with you/for you.
We will add on top of my price the bit you want.
I invoice the client, and you invoice me.
There is a lot to consider such as CIS etc
We as a company have everything in place to clean such buildings.

CIS Deductions are no problem!  When we incurred them we simply deducted that amount from our PAYE payments anyway.  Tax has to be paid one way or another

Kev Martin
Marble Life Ltd

Darren,

Bit surprised / confused ... how does the CIS scheme effect you with internal cleaning ?
as Rob has said, not required for external cleaning

Mike

Hi Mike,

Some of our customers take off 20% Tax as we are CIS registered, some don't.
It really depends on type of buildings that we are working on/in.
It is confusing as we recently did an internal builders clean at Gatwick - Airport for over 30k and they didn't take anything off.
We then did an 800 pound job in London for an office refurbishment and the client took off the 20%

We are confused as I think the customers are, but either way - Tax has been paid and I am sure it will resolve itself at the end of the Tax year.

[Griffus]

We only carry out cleaning hence have not registered for CIS, however some clients have asked for CIS we simply explain its not required for 'cleaning only', last time we checked with revenue .... so far no probs !
prefer to have money in my back pocket 

Your accountant is going to have fun 

The only issue with not being CIS registered for some companies is that their billing is set up to automatically deduct CIS. It is therefore so much simpler to just insist on CIS accross the board.

If you meet certain criteria you can apply for CIS exemption but best to check with existing Clients / target Clients that this wouldn't exclude you from working with them. Even if you do meet the criteria it is far from assured that you'll be successful.

Onto the original poster: -

1) VAT does not apply to new build houses, so double check it applies to this property.

2) Depends on your knowledge, experience and capability. Only you can know this.

3) Sub-Contracting - It is unlikely that you're the only company invirted to put a price in. Margins being what they are I doubt you'd compete on price with a mark-up added. Other issues are insurances, payment terms, quality, reliability, liability. This list is endless. Best chance for you here would be to speak with those here showing an interest. Check their previous work (references). Agree a fee for yourself should they suceed in winning the job via their own tender. This way you have no obligations, nor liabilities to the customer as you are out of the loop.

Just be sure to get the agreement nice and tight.

[mike roberts]

Yep totally get that ref companies billing so it can help them or possibly exclude yorself if not reg ... but ... for IR CIS reg is not required for cleaning or atleast it wasnt last yr when we checked, maybe its changed..

 I am constantly confused   must be my age

bit lost by last post ref vat whats the building got to do with it ??
It is your charge for services ...either you  are registered or not ??

Original post If you employ someone who is vat reg you will pay them full amount services + vat.... you have to 'suck in' that cost..
If you are not vat registered cant see how you can charge vat to end client ??

[Blast Away]

I'm confused here...

We're deducted 20% when requested for CIS number on some jobs. Should I not be allowing it?

[Matt Gibson]

Lee, your exempt from CIS for any external cleaning. ill email you over the page from HMRC ive got..

Just send it to your clients who want to deduct CIS...they can jam it..

[Seers]

Hi,

Ian is completely correct on the VAT issue.

New builds are exempt from VAT until they are occupied. So for instance you would not charge any VAT on the build clean, re-clean and sparkle on a new build plot but would charge VAT on a weekly showhome clean as the sales team have "moved in".

On refurbs you do charge VAT as this is simply change of use and not classed as new build.

Cheers,

Huw

[Griffus]

Hi,

Ian is completely correct on the VAT issue.

New builds are exempt from VAT until they are occupied. So for instance you would not charge any VAT on the build clean, re-clean and sparkle on a new build plot but would charge VAT on a weekly showhome clean as the sales team have "moved in".

On refurbs you do charge VAT as this is simply change of use and not classed as new build.

Cheers,

Huw

Spot on, thanks Huw