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davep

  • Posts: 2589
Cfr problem
« on: October 30, 2011, 03:14:57 pm »
My Cfr handtool is playing up

It won't let me get any more than 100 psi as the water is being diverted somewhere

Thought the hide a hose was leaking back into the vac so had it changed

Got a trigger repair kit but still happening

Anyone had similar?

garry22

Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2011, 03:33:45 pm »
Dave, how do you know it is 100psi at the handtool?

carpet_care

  • Posts: 185
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2011, 03:48:17 pm »
Dave if youve swapped the small male and female QC like what happened on mine is it maybe the large QC going at the end of the solution line ???

Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2011, 05:13:24 pm »
Dave

I had a similar problem a couple of months back. The hand tool was going through a ton of water and had pressure problems even tho the psi was always set to 150psi.

I noticed the water usage problem as I run a porty, maybe less evident for a truckmount user.

I opended the hide-a-hose at the tool end discovered it pished solution back in to your face when the you turned the pump on.

These are the two parts you need:

http://www.amtechuk.co.uk/shop/Nipple__QD_1_8M_-_1_8F_-pid-387.html

http://www.amtechuk.co.uk/shop/Coupler__QD_1_8_F-pid-386.html

Easy enough fix but you do have a bit of dismantling to do.

Tony

carpet_care

  • Posts: 185
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2011, 05:27:55 pm »
Thats what happened on mine carpet dawg i think dave has already done that.


 Andy Locke.

Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2011, 05:32:04 pm »
ah miss read his post. Thought he only changed the valve kit.

If he's changed the coupler and nipple and its still playing up then it can only be the male QC at the solution line surely?


davep

  • Posts: 2589

Paul Moss

  • Posts: 2296
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2011, 06:56:13 pm »
Descale

will_turton

  • Posts: 217
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2011, 09:14:01 pm »
 dave


Thackley Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 86
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2011, 10:41:29 pm »
i have a question about these tools.

is there anyway to get the water coming out of the tool to be hot.  I use hot water but still the spray action seems to cool it right down before it hits the fabric. 

I know the waters not supposed to be hot but it supposed to coming out cold.  On some jobs hot water would be a massive benefit.

Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2011, 11:01:43 pm »
i have a question about these tools.

is there anyway to get the water coming out of the tool to be hot.  I use hot water but still the spray action seems to cool it right down before it hits the fabric.  

I know the waters not supposed to be hot but it supposed to coming out cold.  On some jobs hot water would be a massive benefit.

 :o the tool cant heat the water up for you.

What kinda porty do you have? If it doesn't have a built in heater then you'll need to get an inline heater.

If your using an inline heater then you'll need to let the hot water "catch up" so give it extra dry strokes.

Jim_77

Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2011, 11:09:50 pm »
If you use an on/off trigger technique it will only pull a little bit of water out from your machine at a time, therefore it will be losing most of its heat out of the solution line before it gets to the tool.

Could be jet size.  The finer the jet, the smaller the atomised droplets of water will be, and thereforethe greater surface area to lose heat from.  If you've got an '02 for example try going up to an '03 or even '04 and just tur nthe pressure down on the machine a bit to compensate for the extra flow.  Pressure isn't important, just the flow rate.

Failing that, try cupping your hand over the end of the tool and holding the trigger for a minute or so (until the water is too hot on your hand to hold it there any longer!), which will pull through the hot water from the machine.  Then try to alter your technique so you keep the flow coming from the machine more steadily, rather than letting it cool, which will maintain cleaning temperature

Or get a constant flow tool like a drimaster or sapphire which are designed to maintain optimum heat ;)

Thackley Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 86
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2011, 11:35:59 pm »
the guys at amtech said the best pressure to use the tool at was 200psi and thats what I use it at. 

As for nozzle size its an '02 so the solution comes out at a fair pace but the waters always cool, this is even when we use piping hot water in the tank and a smaller hose - 5m.

Ive tried keeping the trigger pressed for a while but the water comes out luke warm never hot but its not an issue with the wand where it does come out pretty hot.

Im concerned about over-wetting if i go above an '02.  I use a porty which has twin stage lamb ametek vacs so i can get the water out but the upholstery is supposed to be dry within half an hour (according to the amtech guys).

I could try jims idea about using a higher nozzle with less psi because hot water alone will get a lot of dirt off some of the chairs we have to clean.

also i have to clean 300 dining chairs but i would like to know the best way to do it.  HWE would take forever so can anyone else recommend another method ie foam etc...

thanks

Jim_77

Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 01:01:35 am »
200psi from your machine will fill a bucket considerably faster or slower than 200psi from a different machine.  Unless every single carpet cleaning machine in the world uses the same pump, pressure means diddly squat, it's all about flow rate ;)

With respect to amtech, upholstery being dry "within half an hour" is a load of shyte.  You don't even get upholstery properly dry in that time with a really powerful truckmount and especially not with a CFR hand tool

First objective is deal with the soiling conditions present; guaranteeing a drying time is secondary to getting the cleaning done properly.  Just my opinion mind you :)

You should be getting water out of your tool at somewhere near to the tank temperature, over a short-ish hose run, so something is not quite right.  I would definitely try an '04 jet and try to keep the trigger pulled for longer bursts to keep the heat coming through.

Regarding the chairs, if you want to produce a superficial improvement with foam, fill ya boots!  If you're afraid to take on such a job with your current extraction system, maybe it's time to think about updating your machinery if this kind of work is getting more regular?  There's nothing worse than dreading a job, and it's usually because you think you're going to struggle with the present equipment you have.

However if this is a rare sized job it obviously isn't worth rushing out and spending £40k on a truckmount setup to do it :)

300 dining chairs - seat pad and back pad?  With a team of 2 using your current kit you should be able to knock that out in one decent day's work (will be knackering though!).  With a good methodical system, 40 chairs per hour should be achievable, but obviously depends on working conditions, soil levels & fabric etc.

From experience doing such jobs, I'd advise a few things to make the job go easier.  First of all ensure you've got plenty of space to work in, and hopefully use a floor which doesn't need drop sheets otherwise you'll have a nightmare.  If it's a carpeted area don't bother sheeting it, just whack a bonnet round it quickly after you've cleaned and they'll be eternally grateful for the "free" carpet clean ;)

PResuming it's a function room ypou should have plenbty of space - clear all the tables to one long side of the room and put al lthe chairs at one short end.  Plan a production line from one end of the room to the other, use a few tables to stand air movers on in the drying area.

Get your helper to first of all to pull out the most minging chairs and get them sprayed up and agitated first, allowing a good dwell, working down the the cleanest ones which just get a quick spray and brush then straight to extraction.

The first few jobs you do like this will be a learning curve but it's quite satisfying, just don't underprice yourself ;)

Thackley Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 86
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2011, 12:09:41 pm »
thanks for the advice Jim.

i will try and change the nozzle to an 04 instead, because the water is coming out cold.

As for the chairs, theres no helper yet but we do quite a few chairs and its always back breaking work but i just wanted to know if there was a better way to do them.

The ones that arent too dirty, can we miss the pre-spray bit and go straight over the chair with the hand tool  using prochem F+F ?

thanks again,

daniel

Kinver_Clean

  • Posts: 1120
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2011, 02:55:54 pm »
If the tool is a hidahose then the air/water mix going up the vac pipe will cool the  hot water pipe. Only a few seconds of not spraying will cool it considerably.

That's why I now use cold water rinse for everything.
God must love stupid people---He made so many.

Jim_77

Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2011, 05:01:22 pm »
Good point Trevor.  I suppose that's why keeping a constant flow is even more important with a hide-a-hose if you want good heat.  The hot solution being drawn back up the vac hose will keep the inside of the hose warm and stop the temperature loss, but as soon as you stop pulling hot solution through, the temperature inside the hose will plummet again!

Daniel, just extracting from a dry state with F&F will be adequate on any chairs that look very clean.  However if you're going for that approach I'd maybe use a different chemical to rinse with.  Any of the powdered microsplitters like SPM, pureclean, or DFC would be ideal.  I've been giving SPM a good trial in recent weeks and have been getting some good results with it - it's very economical too.

Unless the chairs are cotton or wool (very unlikely) you don't need an acid rinse, and can use something like SPM to give your extraction a bit more "zing" and like you say avoid having to pre-spray/agitate on the cleaner ones.

You'll just have to suck it and see to be honest, sometimes even your heaviest duty pre-spray won't quite bring the dirty ones up perfectly, but then other times you barely need to try in order to get brilliant results.  I guess it is mostly dependent on the fabric, but also what type of soiling and how long the soiling has been building up or ground in for.

I would definitely try to get a helper for a job that size, you'll be suicidal after 2 days of the same monotonous routine on your own.  I think also on a job like this it would take one person more than twice the time that it would take 2 people, considering all the lugging round of the chairs you need to do.

Thackley Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 86
Re: Cfr problem
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2011, 09:49:43 am »
thanks again Jim.

Eventually I will get someone to come on board but as yet the business is still growing i dont want to take on any extra responsibilities that i might struggle to yet afford.

The cfr tool came with a 5 ft attachment hose and the solution pipe is hidden inside the hose.  I spoke to the amtech people yesterday and they said thats the first time anyones ever said that to them but that they would have a look into it.

As for the chairs, i will just get on with it and i'll be using ultrapac on the really bad ones and just (hopefully) hot F+F rinse for the ones that just need freshening up.  If there are a few that need doing again then i will get cracking. 

thanks again.

daniel