[Ian_Giles]

A further point to make; COST.

You can be up and running for well under £2000. And that's a complete system with enough water to last you all day.

Sorry, but this is not a great sum of money is it?

Not really when compared to almost any other industry.

Set yourself up as a decorator, or an electrician, or a plumber or carpenter. It'll cost you far more than that today.

You can bleat all you like about cost, but it just isn't prohibitively expensive to get into, certainly not for the one man band.

It may well hurt your pocket for a while, but for those who are serious about staying as a window cleaner then it will not put them out of business.
If such a relatively small sum of money would put you our of business, then you are only hanging on by your shirt tails anyway.

I think that even taking the cost of a custom built (as against DIY) WFP system, we are still one of the cheapest industries to start up in.

Fancy being a car valeter or carpet cleaner? check out the prices their gear

I think we are very lucky indeed that we have a cost effective and affordable option.

Regards,

Ian xxxxx

[windows_chepstow]

A further point to make; COST.

You can be up and running for well under £2000. And that's a complete system with enough water to last you all day.

Ian xxxxx

You can be up and running for less than £600!  And after your first WFP cleans, expect an increase of 30% (ish) in your turnover.

David (St Ives) put together a van mounted system and a back pack (which is no worse and maybe superior to a 25 litre trolley system) for £800 (van not included in that price).

I've just knocked out three days ladder-work in less than two days using my back-pack.  I finished at 2.00 pm because I felt it a bit cheeky to go cleaning someone's house 3 days earlier than scheduled.  (Two days is okay though ).

So I went for a pint in the local and was asked to give a quote for that pub too!  £35 per clean, ground floor only; once a fortnight and it's just round the corner from me.  I'm doing it tomorrow morning.

Sod safety and the rules; get a WFP; just make sure the system you get is suitable for your type of work.  I just use a back pack and it's made a world of difference to my work and income.

I'm getting another for Wor Lass.

Does anyone want to swop a back pack for a 50 litre trolley, 60 psi pump, battery and charger?  I'll throw in a 2 to 4 foot Ionics pole for free (not the brush head though).

I've heard it said here that a WFP is not a magic wand; but used correctly it bloody well is. 

I'm still getting over the 'less effort + safer + quicker = greater income' syndrome.

Life just isn't usually like that!

[AuRavelling79]

I've heard it said here that a WFP is not a magic wand; but used correctly it bloody well is. 

Abracadabra!

[Terry_Burrows]

lets hope you all dont go Poof and your gone

[Sir Squeaky]

If he is a poof he hides it well

[Moderator David@stives]

I would bet with anyone that within 2 years 80% of window cleaners younger than 50 years old will have a wfp.

Any one want a bet

[williamx]

HSE's 'Ladders Week' starts Monday

Falls from height are the number one cause of workplace deaths and one of the main causes of major injury in the workplace - and almost a third of falls are from ladders. Last year 13 people died from falls while working on a ladder, and over 1,200 people suffered major injuries. The Health & Safety Executive's (HSE) national initiative to promote the safe use of ladders, 'Ladders Week', which begins on Monday, will feature events where HSE inspectors will work with ladder users and their employers, look at the current use of ladders and suggest sensible measures to improve safety.
During Ladders Week, each HSE local office is organising its own events, many in partnership with trade associations, local employers and equipment hire companies. These events include Safety & Health Awareness Days, practical demonstrations of alternative equipment to ladders and breakfast meetings with employers and health and safety professionals.

To coincide with Ladders Week, HSE will be producing free guides to help raise awareness of the risks associated with ladder use and giving advice on how to use them safely.

Ian Greenwood, HSE Falls from Height Team Leader, said: "With a little more planning and assessment of the risks, understanding of the limitations of ladders, proper maintenance and checking that users are competent, many of these accidents could be avoided.

"A major injury, such as a broken bone or fractured skull, can often be a life changing event for the person concerned and their family. Quite apart from the personal suffering, an injury of this sort can adversely affect earning power and job prospects for a long time after the accident."
The key points to achieving increased ladder safety are:
•
• Using risk assessment to establish what is the most suitable work equipment when people have to work at height, taking into account the conditions and type of work to be done.
• Knowing the limitations of the ladder; employers should contact suppliers or manufacturers if they need more information.
• Ensuring users are competent in the safe use of ladders, including any accessories.
• Ensuring ladders are maintained in safe working order. Pre-use checks are critical as damaged ladders often continue to be used. In particular, missing ladder feet will increase the risk of a ladder slipping or stepladder wobbling.
• A ladder should only be used where a risk assessment demonstrates that the task is low risk and of short duration, or where there are existing features on site that cannot be altered and the use of other equipment is not practical. Such features include restricted space preventing other equipment from being put in place correctly or ground conditions that mean that there is no suitable area to set up alternative equipment. 

Further information to help people who work at height, employers, and others with responsibilities under the law, is available free on the HSE website at: www.hse.gov.uk/falls/. The website includes a number of 'from experience' case studies of falls from ladders, together with advice on the precautions that should be taken to prevent such accidents.

Information about events during Ladders Week and contact details for more information are available on the HSE website. Alternatively, information is available from local HSE offices whose contact details are on the HSE website at: www.hse.gov.uk/contact/maps/index.htm

10.11.05

 

[windows_chepstow]

I would bet with anyone that within 2 years 80% of window cleaners younger than 50 years old will have a wfp.

Any one want a bet

In Chepstow, it's getting easier to name the non-WFP users than to name the WFP users.

Let's see:

WFP Users that I know (personally; not just through this site):

Ian Giles
Tomo
John H
Me


Non-WFP Users that I know:

Roger
Simon G (whose interested in getting WFP set up)
Terry P (whose interested in getting WFP set up).
Ben P and his Missis (probably hasn't heard of WFP)

[Moderator David@stives]

so nearly there then ,

the older die hard generation may take longer to adapt a local wc said to me he his 2 old to invast and will see his time out with the ladder.

The younger guys will take to it more enthusiastically

Dave

[poleman]

The big problem with the window cleaning industry which is the WAHD says if there is a safer way of doing it, it should be done and as an industry unlike any other we have a safer way (WFP)

As some of you mite know there was a meeting between the Fed and the HSE over a month ago, and if you saw the news night (2) it did said that the laws will be tightened!!!!!!!!

If you have read TWAHD it does say the each trade association will have it own set guidelines for there industry, I will be contacting HSE tomorrow regarding these new guidelines and when they are coming out, BUT from my view point NO ladders will not be BANNED    

[windows_chepstow]

If you have read TWAHD it does say the each trade association will have it own set guidelines for there industry, I will be contacting HSE tomorrow regarding these new guidelines and when they are coming out, BUT from my view point NO ladders will not be BANNED    

Andy,

I've read the Working at Height Directive, but not the 'T' WAHD.

What does the T stand for, and have you a link to the guidelines?

Also, when you say from 'your point of view' that ladders will not be banned, do you mean that regardless of the rules, if you think it's suitable to use a ladder; you'll use it; no matter what the law says?

[windows_chepstow]

At a guess, I think the 'T' stands for Temporary.

[poleman]

Tosh

Its just abbreviations! All the same meaning. Here is the regulations...  

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg401.pdf

My view point of the new guidelines they wont ban ladders, but the present set come out before TWAHD so are out of date http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/misc613.pdf

As an employer I would not sleep at night if I did not give my staff the safest way of working, WFP.

Andy

[rosskesava]

Hi Poleman

We use wfp for a lot of work and am I glad that our ladder use is a lot less than it was.

What you have written is that ladders are banned.

the WAHD says if there is a safer way of doing it, it should be done

So that means that because there is always a safer way of cleaning windows than using a ladder so ladders are banned because ...........

For window cleaners the WAHL's states that alternatives need to be looked at first.

At present - that is it. If a w/c uses a ladder then it has to be for a short duration and done safely.

Also, this may sound like nit picking but what other word could replace the word 'should' in your posting. 'Needs to', 'must be',.... the word 'should' implies many things and is not specific. The first part of that statement of yours (the WAHD says if there is a safer way of doing it, it should be done) is specific and precise, the second part is not precise and this is what I think causes so much confusion.

I'm not having a dig and if it seems so then I apologise but with laws like the WAHL's, 'precise' is so important as the wording in the WAHL's is.

As for Newsnight, after watching the original twisted and consumer orientated hype designed to grab veiwers attention and start a whole lot of spin off's designed to do more of the same.......It's like the old Dr Who series where it ends with the Dr or someone in mortal danger.

I think I'll wait for the actual changes to be introduced instead and then read them on the H & S website and not go by carefully edited hype by people skilled in the art of subtle deception whilst saying the truth in a concealed manner.

Right, I'm off my soap box now.

Tosh

I think T stands for 'The'.... maybe?

Cheers

[geoffreyspecht]

first of all ladders are not banned for window cleaning otherwise there would be a lot of window cleaners out there breaking the law, including one of the biggesy window cleaning campanies in the country ocs their window cleaners still use ladders

[Sir Squeaky]

In Chepstow, it's getting easier to name the non-WFP users than to name the WFP users.

Strange...

I know you, Ian and John(who does a lot of trad work).

But I know at least 7 people with no interest in pole work at all.

[Ian_Giles]

Wow Tosh, you surprise me, I never thought that Simon would consider getting into it.
I'm not going to insult him on here, he may have learned how to plug a computer in
If a stick in the mud like him is thinking about it then it really is becoming mainstream.
Mind you, he will have seen me in action and will know about your new system.

Stick with the ladders ~Rog, there won't be enough houses to go around otherwise
Tosh, make sure you tell Simon that the only option is the full blown Ionics hot water system....now won't we look stupid if the begger goes and gets one

Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

Ian, I spoke to Simon a few days ago, and he has no interest in wfp at all.

He's just going along with Tosh raving about it.

He's perfectly satisfied with his current technique.

Stick with the ladders ~Rog, there won't be enough houses to go around otherwise

Wrong way around actually.

The more wfp'ers around the more work I pick up from customers unhappy with spots and runs.
It's getting more and more regular now.

Rog.

[gaza]

yeah and the more they build 3 high new houses the more nice coimpact round Iwill have,
priced up 3 new building sites in a month about 200 houses cus no one can do them trad the sales  girls are putting my brochure in the welcoming pack
and giving me the nod when people  move in,also I  clean the show houses +marketing suite already for 38  squid for 12 windows+2 french doors.

  gaza
so look at the nice building sites your missing out on.

200 x £10= £2000

 gaza

[windows_chepstow]

Ian, I spoke to Simon a few days ago, and he has no interest in wfp at all.

Roger,

Did Simon ask you to do his shops recently, when he went on holiday? 

He asked me first.  I said I couldn't fit them in, so he said he'd ask you to do them.  He doesn't know I know you.  I didn't let on either.

Don't believe a word that comes out of Simon's mouth.  He's a few 'issues' he should be receiving professional help with.

I say as little as possible to Simon, I have issues with him, and it was he who was paying an interest in a WFP and its extra earning power.

Simon also told me that Ray (taxi driver) was considering returning to window cleaning because he found out about WFP from Matt.

I'll be in Portwall Road, then Green Street on Monday or Tuesday (depending on when I'm wanted for a large three story job in the sticks).  But it's just round the corner from where you live.

Roger, you're more than welcome to drop-by and see a simple - cost effective - system in use.  No 'kerfuffle'; just quick clean windows and frames with a lot less effort than ladders.  Oh, nearly forgot, safer too.

If you're cleaning with ladders £30 an hour; your prices must be good; and this'll boost your income even more.

I really can't understand your anti-WFP stance, mate.  Honestly.  Keep an open mind and try it first.

Remember, it's no skin off my nose if you use ladders and very probably the reverse if you ever do convert to using a WFP.  Smart people make their decisions based on all the knowledge they can gather. 

I'm not anti-ladder.  I used them a few times today myself.  No problems.

Call me old fashioned, but you're a local window cleaner and a member of this forum that has helped me greatly in my new business.

I'm just trying to return the help that others have and still give me.

It's not an 'us and them' issue.