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telboy

Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2005, 06:39:33 pm »
SQUEAKY

I WASN'T REFERING TO SHINERS WHO USE TRAD TOOLS

ONLY THOSE THAT CANT

I THINK YOURE KINDA CUTE TO ;)

TEL BOY ;D ;)

ANGEL CLEANING

P.S GOT THE NAME RIGHT THIS TIME ;D

Terry_Burrows

  • Posts: 1643
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2005, 08:10:58 am »
The one thing if wfp came down in price maybe wc would use or go over to them more ;) :-\but its a lot of dosh to lay out get work,people do not come towards you just cause you have a pole that squirts water out of the top with a brush ::) the window cleaner after all these years is now looking like a gone wrong, chimmley sweeper,if we have a very bad winter like its predicted,ice snow you cannot use this method in these conditions,what if it goes on for a long time ??? :-\ all this water flying around domestic punters will go spare :o wfp do have there uses for sure but it does seem a lot of trouble just to clean windows :-\
WWW.FASTESTWINDOWCLEANER.CO.UK
GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER
BURNING RUBBER FASTER!
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF MASTER WINDOW CLEANERS.

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2005, 08:19:50 am »
Can't wait to see what happens in the next major drought, and it will happen sooner or later.

Hundreds of gallons of precious water being used by thousands of people.
Oh dear, they won't allow that. :-\

Terry_Burrows

  • Posts: 1643
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2005, 08:22:48 am »
 ;D thats a very good point :o hose ban wfp ban :-\ no doubt that will be
made to somones attention  :o
WWW.FASTESTWINDOWCLEANER.CO.UK
GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER
BURNING RUBBER FASTER!
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF MASTER WINDOW CLEANERS.

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25392
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2005, 05:15:22 pm »
Luddites.
It's a game of three halves!

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2988
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2005, 05:41:56 pm »
Hosepipe bans won't really have an effect come a drought, if it got so bad they would stop you using it to clean windows we would all be in dire straights indeed :-\

As for the winter weather...I'm dreading a really bad cold one!
But there are things that can be done to at least cut down the problems.

The window cleaner I was talking to a couple of weeks ago (when I was timing another one across the road ;)) mentioned a guy who was trying to sell a product to stop the water freezing on pavements and paths.
Rather than carry around large quantities of road salt to throw down, this guy is promoting a hand held sprayer, much like you will use to spray fertiliser or bug spray on you garden, you know the ones, the pump up ones.
In this is a clear antifreeze/defrost type solution that you spray onto the areas you have wetted with the water, sounds like a damn good idea to me, I'll try and find out more about it.

There is also some kind of alcohol you can put into the water too, though what the cost of this is I have no idea.

Many if not most of the window cleaners on the forum haven't been going long enough to have gone through a severe winter, having days on end with the water freezing in your BOAB, your scrims freezing into lumps of cardboard, the water freezing constantly on the glass, it'll cause hardships for trad cleaners too.
I'm am very lucky in that most of my bread and butter work is shop fronts, at least if the weather does get as bad as the doom-sayers are predicting, then I'll just go back to using trad, I use it a lot anyway, but I won't be climbing ladders again...apart from my pointer perhaps.
But as I said, I am lucky in that I have that option.

Only time will tell what kind of a winter we are going to have come January eh?

Terry mentions the cost of the systems as being expensive, some of them are to be sure, but for under 2 grand you can be up and running with a custom built system, and that is ignoring the fact that you can also go the DIY way and get up and running cheaper still.

How many of you have the full package with satelite TV? How new are some of your computers? Got broadband too? How much did you pay for your car?
An don't forget, some of the companies will lease you the equipment, or you can buy it on  the never never...
For the one man band the cost simply is not exorbitant, different for the larger companies, they will have to invest tens of thousands of pounds in some cases.

My cup is always half full, never half empty ;)

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

telboy

Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2005, 05:53:00 pm »
ITS SAD TO SEE SOME TRAD W/C SEEM TO BE LOOKING FORWARD TO W/F POLE WINDOW CLEANERS COMING A CROPPER

TALKING ABOUT WATER BANS
FREEZING WINTERS

AFTER ALL WE ARE ALL ONLY TRYING TO EARN A LIVING

TERRY  SQUEAKY????



TELBOY :( ;)


ANGEL C/S

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2005, 06:42:17 pm »
Ian why do you have to turn your pump on ?????????

Get a variestream as it is always on take your hose to the first window connect your pole and voila the water flow switches the pump to start and instant water.

when finished disconnect pole then voila the pump stops.

Magic

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2005, 08:11:17 pm »
ITS SAD TO SEE SOME TRAD W/C SEEM TO BE LOOKING FORWARD TO W/F POLE WINDOW CLEANERS COMING A CROPPER
No more so than them looking forward to a ladder ban! ;)

dai

  • Posts: 3503
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2005, 08:17:54 pm »
I think I know the reason that I'm not faster with WFP. Ian put me on to it.
90 seconds to do a standard window? I timed myself today, not the same window as Ian described, just 2 panes about 3ft by 18 inches. I wasn't racing just cleaning as normal. time taken 40 seconds max. Now I'm getting a bit long in the tooth so not the fastest guy around. It's all down to the Wagtail. I'v really mastered it now, got it dog eared too. In the time it takes an average guy to cover the glass with his applicator, I'v done the whole job. If Terry Burrows ever gets his hands on one of these he'l have to get securicore to do his collecting. DAI

neil100

  • Posts: 1137
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2005, 08:43:42 pm »
Ian,

I'm another one who's been timming himself today.

You reckon 90 secs for an average 3 glasspaned window. It never took me longer then 60 seconds, and I was going a speed I can maintain for 9 hours a day in other words normall. I did time myself at race speed and that was 34 seconds and I checked how clean they were afterwards, pristine.

Now I'm going wfp for safety reasons. But I'm damm quick traditional. 26 yrs have fine tuned me to perfection. I am 100% effecient without wasting a second. I adjust my ladder as I walk if the windows are not to high. and as I put the ladder on the ground I'm on my way up, I know instinctivley exactly how high my ladder should be for each window.I never ever have to adjust the ladder for hight. I've done tops only for 12 years. I'm not saying I am faster then wfp but 90 seconds is awfully slow.

I have an excellent reputation for leaving windows streak free Whilest  being fast. And their will not be many w/c faster then me on this planet who could beat me for speed or quality on a real house with upstairs and downstairs windows.


Dont tar us all with the same brush. 90 secs a joke.

Regards Nel.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2005, 08:47:18 pm »
Does that include the 5 odd seconds and the same again down the ladder and the 5 seconds for moving the ladder i do a nursing home and it was 2 pane windows and it was 1 min including moving ladders and i am quick too even faster if i want to be .

I dont care if wfp is slower it is more relaxing and enjoyable.

Dave

rosskesava

Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2005, 09:53:01 pm »
Wfp is one thing for sure - wetter.

Speed is just one aspect of making money though.

How about the price? Organisation. Reducing running costs? Etc.

It is great to be really fast (which I'm not with traditional methods) but efficiancy is better in terms of the days work and, I think, more important than speed when actually at the job.

One thing with being speedy though that is worth a thought, the risk especially with ladders increases.

I was an engineer at the start of my working life doing an apprenticeship as a toolmaker and on every machine was a sign which read 'Speed Can Kill'. Every day that was hammered into us in no uncertain terms.

Personnaly, I don't ever worry about being quick. I just do the job and then go onto the next whether trad style or wfp.

Cheers

Paul Coleman

Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2005, 11:57:55 pm »
Hosepipe bans won't really have an effect come a drought, if it got so bad they would stop you using it to clean windows we would all be in dire straights indeed :-\

As for the winter weather...I'm dreading a really bad cold one!
But there are things that can be done to at least cut down the problems.

The window cleaner I was talking to a couple of weeks ago (when I was timing another one across the road ;)) mentioned a guy who was trying to sell a product to stop the water freezing on pavements and paths.
Rather than carry around large quantities of road salt to throw down, this guy is promoting a hand held sprayer, much like you will use to spray fertiliser or bug spray on you garden, you know the ones, the pump up ones.
In this is a clear antifreeze/defrost type solution that you spray onto the areas you have wetted with the water, sounds like a damn good idea to me, I'll try and find out more about it.

There is also some kind of alcohol you can put into the water too, though what the cost of this is I have no idea.

Many if not most of the window cleaners on the forum haven't been going long enough to have gone through a severe winter, having days on end with the water freezing in your BOAB, your scrims freezing into lumps of cardboard, the water freezing constantly on the glass, it'll cause hardships for trad cleaners too.
I'm am very lucky in that most of my bread and butter work is shop fronts, at least if the weather does get as bad as the doom-sayers are predicting, then I'll just go back to using trad, I use it a lot anyway, but I won't be climbing ladders again...apart from my pointer perhaps.
But as I said, I am lucky in that I have that option.

Only time will tell what kind of a winter we are going to have come January eh?

Terry mentions the cost of the systems as being expensive, some of them are to be sure, but for under 2 grand you can be up and running with a custom built system, and that is ignoring the fact that you can also go the DIY way and get up and running cheaper still.

How many of you have the full package with satelite TV? How new are some of your computers? Got broadband too? How much did you pay for your car?
An don't forget, some of the companies will lease you the equipment, or you can buy it on  the never never...
For the one man band the cost simply is not exorbitant, different for the larger companies, they will have to invest tens of thousands of pounds in some cases.

My cup is always half full, never half empty ;)

Ian

Ian.
I would be interested to hear about that footpath spray thing you mentioned.  As for water freezing on the glass - that has never really been an issue for me with trad method.  I have tipped plenty of screenwash into the bucket along with the water and itr works OK.  It would be a problem with WFP though I think as any additive would make the water impure perhaps?  However, there is a workaround.  It's not ideal but it does exist so long as you don't need to clean any windows above the first floor.  In order to avoid water freezing on the glass AND keeping within the WAHD regs I would use my Unger pole and the backflip.  The water won't freeze so long as you put enough screenwash in it.  For windows where I can't stand directly underneath and need to work at an angle, I would use my swivloc squeegees.  They swivel at the neck.  I have one that has a normal angle (about 60 degrees) and another that has a zero degree angle.  Admittedly the quality of the job would probably not be as good as ladder work or WFP but at least, with some perseverance, you could keep some turnover coming in.  There may be the odd window that you normally do that cannot be cleaned like this but, as a stopgap, I think most customers would settle for an uncleaned window and a temporary price reduction.  Even before WFP was around, I was using my 5 piece Unger pole for certain difficult windows.  OK so you probably couldn't manage leaded or Georgian jobs but at least most of the work could be done.  Also, bear in mind that we are only talking about upper windows.  Ground floor could still be done the traditional way with a high concentration of screenwash in the water.
My experience is that most customers are delighted to be getting some sort of service on a day when they wouldn't even send their cat out.

gaza

  • Posts: 1642
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2005, 01:55:37 am »
YOUVE ALL MISSED THE POINT:YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO GO HOME TO YOUR WIFE AND KIDS AT NIGHT,EVEN IF YOU DONT WANT TO. ACCIDENTS ARE CAUSED.
LOOK HOW MANY MISTAKES HAPPEN IN THE BEDROOM ;D
KNOCKING KNEES,BAD JOINTS,STRAINS ARE CAUSED BY LONG TERM LADDER USE.

  GAZA
IM AT THAT AGE MY BACK GOES OUT MORE THAN I DO

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2988
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2005, 06:50:50 am »
Gaza actually has a point there.

A couple of years ago I had both my knees 'keyholed', at the time I put my knee problems down to a lifetime of playing sport, and for the last 10 years or so of being a bowler in cricket.
So, both knees got cleaned up, cricket was better but I still couldn't really run freely, still had to be pretty careful.
The last 2 seasons I have been able to run in hard and also sprint flat out (that might not be very fast, but it was still flat out!!).
Up until a couple of months ago I still just assumed that my knee problems were sport related, and then I spent the day up a ladder cleaning windows....
I was helping another window cleaner out, he had just been into hospital for a hernia op, therefore he didn't want to do much in the way of ladder work, not that he has much in the way of ladder work anymore.
For the most part it just wasn't feasable to use my pole system so I spent about 4 or 5 hours up and down a ladder.
For the next 4 days or so my knees were killing me!!!
I worked out that it is not so much the climbing up and down that is the problem, that in itself is probably very good for you (unless you climb them 2 rungs at a time that is)
It was the fact that when you are up the top of the ladder and actually working, your knees are resting against the rungs.
Now this isn't anything like as bad as say...being a carpet fitter and kneeling down all day long, but it is cumalative, and as the years pass this mounts up..
Well it did for me at any rate :'(
Just the one full day on a ladder and I was starting to get the knee problems again...


Mind how you go out there....it's a minefield ;D


Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2005, 08:12:05 am »
I agree with you about the physical aspect Ian.
I do worry about my joints a lot.

If ever there was a reason for me changing, then that would be it.
But Tosh carries around 25litres on his back, that can't be any better.

These poles aren't light, so surely it's knackered arms and shoulders instead?

That'll do me for this subject now, as I think everyone's starting to repeat themselves now anyway.

As a last point..
I counted 8 windows I could only do with wfp yesterday,
and 14 that I wfp couldn't do.

Pleasing the customer? ::)

telboy

Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2005, 11:33:28 am »
SQUEAKY

A TOTAL LADDER BAN WOULDN'T HELP ANYONE

I STILL USE LADDERS OCCASIONALLY EVERY MONTH

SO I DONT WANT TO SEE THEM BANNED

TEBOY ;)


ANGEL C/S

Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2005, 05:12:43 pm »
I agree with you about the physical aspect Ian.
I do worry about my joints a lot.

If ever there was a reason for me changing, then that would be it.
But Tosh carries around 25litres on his back, that can't be any better.

These poles aren't light, so surely it's knackered arms and shoulders instead?


Roger,

You're a canny lad.

But very wrong.

Meet up with me.

E-mail me your mobile number (I've only got your home phone number) and spend half an hour with me/us.

I'll give you a pole and let you have a go and show you the standard of work it can produce.

It's the beez-neez mate!

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Traditional Method ??
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2005, 06:20:30 pm »
I'll give you a pole and let you have a go and show you the standard of work it can produce.

It's the beez-neez mate!
Lovely I'm sure, but it dries spotty. :o

House owners tell me, and shop owners tell me.

Might look good when you leave it.....

Also, what if there's a crusty bird doodah right at the bottom of the pane?
You couldn't see it from the ground, so you won't scrub it off.

There's no answer to that one, that's been another customer complaint - bird poop.