[Ant C]

I've got to go around and see someone tomorrow about a damp underlay.

They told me they hired a carpet cleaning machine and cleaned lounge carpet on saturday. The carpet was still damp on sunday - they opened windows and left it. Sunday night started to smell musty, they pulled back top of carpet and underlay was damp and smelt.

What cure is there for me to administer. Should I just leave a fan to dry the carpet or should I clean again with a deoderiser (any recomendations)

will drying the carpet and underlay solve the problem? It has obviously been over wet but was only done on saturday.

Any recomendations or solutions appreciated.

Anthony

[Jim_77]

The normal musty smell from this kind of problem would usually take a number of days or even weeks to appear, because it is from fungal & microbial growth caused by the damp conditions.  The growth of those organisms can't immediately spring up to a noticeable level immediately.

However there might already have been an existing problem, which adding moisture has exacerbated.  Maybe this isn't the first time they've drowned their carpet?  Maybe this time they had to "clean it harder" because of the effects of last time!

No point adding more water to the problem.  If the underlay is properly soaked it really needs to be treated like a flood: carpet removing completely, reverse of carpet treated with biocide and drying, underlay ripped up and disposed of, subfloor treated with biocide and drying, underlay replaced, carpet professionally relaid and THEN cleaning.

The carpet itself could even be knackered, if it is tufted the latex adhesive may well be knackered, and a few weeks/months down the line the carpet will delaminate and go all puckered up.

Quite a bit more expensive than getting a pro in to do it properly in the first place!

Anthony forgive me because I don't know your level of skill/expertise in these things, but you have to be very wary about getting involved with problems like this.  At present, this custome is thinking they can just call someone in who will wave some fairy dust around and everything will be better.  Had one like this myself on Friday.

What they fail to appreciate is the problems water can cause when it gets to places it isn't supposed to be.  Presuming the underlay is as soaked as it sounds, if you leave that carpet down and spray some smelly stuff on it, not only will you not solve the problem but you'll make it worse for the customer in the longer run.

Normally, this sort of damage is due to an escape of water whichj is covered by home contents insurance.  However I fear this problem might not be covered because they were attempting a DIY carpet clean.  I would advise them to get their insurance policy schedule out and read through the small print.  That's as much input as I like to have in these situations!

Saying all that it could just be a particularly stinky wool carpet and they simply don't realise wool smells stronger when it's wet!

[Ant C]

Thanks for reply.

I actually think like you said at end of post - the carpet is damp and has the usual musty smell.

Depending on how wet it is and how smelly it is I was considering spraying with a an odour digester then leaving a fan to dry it out lifting a corner of the carpet and directing air underneath for a few hours, then re-evaluate after dry as to if it still smells bad and check for any mould or fungus.

Does this seem like a good 1st point of call?

[Paul Redden Countryfresh]

Excellent post Jim, it's true they just think a quick spray of
your special stuff will make it all go away  :

[John Kelly]

Good post Jim. I would disagree that mould and mildew can't spring up in such a short time. They can, the spores are there and the food is there all it needs is the magic ingredients of water and warmth which they have had in buckets on Saturday.
I wouldn't be adding anymore moisture at this stage even in the form of a deodouriser. An airmover under the carpet is the best option after you have explained what the cause was and made it quite plain that it was their fault and you may not be able to rectify it. Make sure there is adequate ventilation and if it does dry out then go back and clean it properly using a product like Clensan in the rinse to avoid a repeat of the existing problem.

[Colin Day]

I've had 2 jobs with the same problem recently and I've used that Fresh Guard with a bit of Prochem Odour Fresh. I've been back to see how they are getting on and they are happy with the results, smells gone. In future though, having read what Jim's said, I might start to give these sort of jobs a wide berth in future, I could imagine I could end up owning the said, smelly carpets if I'm not careful.

By the way, the 2 jobs I did, the carpets had fully dried out....

[PaulKing]

Wide berth, always more than one visit which soon mounts up, and the fact is they hired a carpet cleaner is often because your too expensive to start with, which  should put in your mind how are they going to react to your charges to put it right, might seam harsh but I find it unlikely I'll get a repeat customer as they are loyal to price not a service level.

[tony bish]

underlay is not designed to get wet ,especially rubber as it will go brittle and disintegrate .The very fact a carpet is on top of underlay that is wet will prevent it drying out for a long while ,thus leaving it open to smells and mildew etc not to mention getting into the sub floor especially concrete.I have uplifted carpets that have been down for years and there has been wetness under the underlay still from a spill months ago which in turn prevents you from laying the new carpet because of the smell and dampness as it will come through the new carpet eventually if not treated accordingly.

[Jamie Pearson]

Had a customer clean a carpet for £20. 6 weeks later carpet is still wet. They asked who could sort it for them so I gave them the local Chem Dry number. They broke it down for them survey, drying equipment, drop off, pick up, meter readings then cleaning. Best part of £250 thank you very much they said.

Training his guy on Wednesday now.
They are also going to get rid of their single (nearly) 2 stage vac machine that they have upgraded with a 120psi flojet pump.

[peter maybury]

"rubber going brittle and disintergrating when wet never seen such a thing". The only rubber underlay that I have seen going brittle is above 12 years old and been dried out over a long period of time.  it is however like a sponge so takes time to dry.
I have quite a lot of customers that have hired rug doctors and called me out on flood restoration and quite happily paid me to rescue their damaged carpet and replace their soaking underlay. They are amongst, my best customers because they are not only singing my praises but telling everybody else what a waste of time the rug doctor was................
Peter

www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

[clinton]

Just had a call with the same problem here too.

Will see if he gets back to me later.

Another rug doctor disaster...

[tony bish]

Well Peter I have been fitting carpets for more years than I care to mention and would say almost half the rubber underlays I come across and replace are delaminating and going brittle from some kind of spillage ,when I say going brittle perhaps I should have said going hard ! I would never put wet underlay or underlay that has been dried out back under a carpet ,underlay is the most important part of the process as it takes the wear from the subfloor ,if it has been wet it will impair its efficiency and in time will crumble .Look at the old type foam back carpets ,used to lay and uplift hundreds of the damm things ,they would always be like powder when uplifted as the rubber would disintegrate which was bad for you if breathed in ,hence the reason they outlawed them and went to felt back carpets .

[petermaybury]

You are trying to tell me about carpet and fitting..................
And flood restoration proceedures..................
With clean water spills the reason that underlay is changed is because it is not economically viable to dry it.
Water is something that will not degrade rubber unless given a long period of time,  once it has evaporated from the porduct it has not change the structure of the material in any way............................. Other things will.......... it can effect the paper backing , if it is that type of underlay ............. There have been situations where it has been convenient to dry out the underlay and this has been done and the underlay refitted without any problems............... The polyeurethane foam that was used it the past it a totally different product and cannot be compared to rubber.......................... I have the faculties to remember how long I have been in flooring, as a fitter, as a specifier, as a buyer, as a retailer and as a maintainer 30 years. I did not have a lot of the technicial and product knowledge as a fitter.

Peter

www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

[tony bish]

I am not trying to tell you anything only voice an opinion and say what I have come across through my experience,I wont bore you or anyone else with my job descriptions and experience over the years but needless to say it also is not just in fitting ,but respect your opinion and will agree to disagree .

[Ant C]

Carpet is now fine.

When she phoned I told her to place any fans they had on top of the carpet to get an airflow across the carpet or ideally lift and use the fan under the carpet.

Got round there and they had lifted the whole carpet, propped it up and used household fans below the carpet.

They done this the night before and left them on during the day. I got there at 3pm and whole area was totally dry .

No signs of mold or any significant odours in the air, although slight smell of dog on carpet.

They were relaying the carpet in the evening so I just left them with some bicarbonate of soda, told them to sprinkle it over carpet, leave overnight and vac off to get rid of any odours.

[peter maybury]

to tell an insurance company or a loss adjuster that you are removing and disposing of the underlay because it is not economically viable to dry it or that it is  not practical is totally acceptable. To tell them that you have done so because it got wet and is going to go brittle or hard will do nothing to reassure anybody of your expertise and competence in dealing with floods.
If you get a room where the underlay is partially wet if the underlay is a product that would be difficult to source or recognise etc then it is completely acceptable to dry and refit the underlay as you are still putting the customer into a pre-loss situation.
Again training is recommended for flood restoration work as there are so many eventualities that can be encountered..
Peter

[tony bish]

Peter far be it from me to doubt your experience in flood or restoration as this is not my area ,and your commitment and expertese to it, which is obviously clear to see ,but in my experience insurance companies generally have little knowledge in the products they are dealing with and will invariably go with the easiest and most cost effective way of handling a claim ,I was once called to a job which an insurance assesor had put down as a twist pile 80/20 to be confronted with a bellevue saxony.I have never not been able to source any appropriate underlay or equivilent and neither have my working partners.I have dealings with tredaire ,ball & young ,softwalk,durafit ,to name but a few and have always been advised and taught by these various companies and manufacturers that if an underlay gets wet and sodden it will have a detrimental effect on its working ability and longevity which in turn will affect the carpet ,and is not advisable in the long run .Once again I do respect your opinion even though I dont agree with it ,but that is what forums are about.So once again I will politely agree to disagree Peter     

[Dave_Lee]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned that the problems that come with wet carpet & underlay are worse if the floor is of a solid variety, where there is absolutely no escape for the water, or natural ventialtion.
With a wooden floor especially floor boards at least there is some absorbancy and an ability to breathe.
I have come across carpets with underlay that have suffered some water damage but have dried out without further problem following a wet vacuuming.
However even after a wet vacuum, a similar case with a solid floor would take much longer to dry out causing inevitable odour problems.
Dave.

[tony bish]

Yes agree totally Dave ,a concrete floor can be severely damaged by water as it will absorb it and stay wet for an incredible amount of time ,and a screeded concrete floor is an absolute nightmare . 

[petermaybury]

Dave
it is not possible on a forum like this to educate people about a subject that requires quite a lot of in depth knowledge and training. It could not cover all the scenarios, that is why people like the flood school run a range of different training programs. It would be quite obvious that you are not going to relay carpets over a wet subfloor. Training is the key to most things and without that training people should not be doing that work.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com