[brett walker]

Hi everyone

Now we can get above the conservatory roof to clean that awkward window do you think charging a pound is a fair price for that one window?

I've got some 3 storey houses that i could'nt do the 4 very top windows  before i had wfp, if i tell them its going to be an extra 4 pound will they be shocked or am i charging too much ?

regards

Brett

[Paul Coleman]

Hi everyone

Now we can get above the conservatory roof to clean that awkward window do you think charging a pound is a fair price for that one window?

I've got some 3 storey houses that i could'nt do the 4 very top windows  before i had wfp, if i tell them its going to be an extra 4 pound will they be shocked or am i charging too much ?

regards

Brett

I can't see any problem with that.  If anything, you may be undercharging.  Just my opinion of course and I do live in the southeast.  I believe you are Nottingham way where prices may be a bit lower.

[petski2]

All depends where you are from Brett.
Im in Yorkshire and they would laugh at me if I put 4 quid on for an extra 4 windows.
I would say it will take you about 2 mins longer than it used to so I would just add a quid on.
1 quid for 2 mins =30 quid for the hour.
Having said that some guys on here would charge 4 quid and more but as I say it depends on the part of country you are in and also the area.

[Davindo Cleana]

Hi Brett - I have a fair few town houses but did not change the price when moving to wfp - I charged £15pcm off ladders cos of the increased risk and charge the same £15 cos the wfp system ain't cheap and I am doing their frames thoroughly. 

just realized what you mean  - as in you weren't doing the top ones at all before - in that case definitely put the price up - if you lose some, you'll get others

[Ian_Giles]

If it wqas only one window then I wouldn't charge anymore, I would debate about charging for 2 extra windows too, particularly if it made next to no difference to the time taken, but four 2nd floor windows would see me putting up the price by a fiver, these are not windows that are easy to get at off a ladder, and the higher you go, the harder it gets with a pole too.

Price the work up as if you were doing it traditional, otherwise you are going to end up doing more work for less money.
WFP may be faster, but if you cut your price accordingly, where the hell is the financial benifit!!
Plus brushes and jets wear out, poles have to be replaced, resin must be bought, R/O's are not cheap to replace, pre-filters need changing regularly, and of course you still have to cover your initial investment.
Your general prices shoud go up, and never down.

If you price up...say, a large house with georgian windows, and don't price it up as if you were going to do it trad, you are going to be in a quandary if you then, because of severe weather, have to clean this account the trad way.

There is a grave danger of giving prices that are too low because of the speed at which WFP can be done.

It isn't as if you don't still need all your trad gear remember, so the running costs of your WFP are over and above your normal running cost, they of course may be reduced, but they are still there.

This particularly applies to larger accounts, with a small semi the time difference isn't great enough to make a difference.

So if you are doing extra work, charge for it!!

Don't forget, your customers will already be getting mor bang for their bucks by having all the frames washed down, and I also wash all of the doors down as I go too!

you don't get more for less in my world

Ian

[AuRavelling79]

If you price up...say, a large house with georgian windows, and don't price it up as if you were going to do it trad, you are going to be in a quandary if you then, because of severe weather, have to clean this account the trad way.

.....

Ian

Sorry to be thick Ian, but what severe weather would make you, a pole user, clean georgian panes the trad way? (I agree that I would charge extra though.)

[Ian_Giles]

If we have a winter like they are forecasting, a proper hard one, we could have days where the temp doesn't get above freezing for a lot of the day, for weeks on end maybe.
Ergo there could well be days when the only way to do your job is the trad way.

When I first started some of the winter weather was bad enough that damp scrims were freezing in pouches, the suds were freezing on the applicators, water was freezing on the windows.
Those of you who have started up within the last decade (those north of the border notwithstanding) have not had to contend with really bitter winter conditions, but if the doom and gloom boffins at the met office are right, we could well be in for a really bad one.

Working outside in sub zero temps for weeks on end really gets you down, I hope to god they are totally wrong and the winter is going to be as mild as the last ten have been 


Ian

[Paul Coleman]

If we have a winter like they are forecasting, a proper hard one, we could have days where the temp doesn't get above freezing for a lot of the day, for weeks on end maybe.
Ergo there could well be days when the only way to do your job is the trad way.

When I first started some of the winter weather was bad enough that damp scrims were freezing in pouches, the suds were freezing on the applicators, water was freezing on the windows.
Those of you who have started up within the last decade (those north of the border notwithstanding) have not had to contend with really bitter winter conditions, but if the doom and gloom boffins at the met office are right, we could well be in for a really bad one.

Working outside in sub zero temps for weeks on end really gets you down, I hope to god they are totally wrong and the winter is going to be as mild as the last ten have been 


Ian

I've had an occasional day like that Ian - even in sunny Sussex    .  However, the temperature has usually climbed high enough by 10 or 11 AM to get some work done that day.  What I have done sometimes is to tip a load of screenwash into the water as that stops it freezing (please note: NOT antifreeze as it may damage paintwork).  That was working the traditional way.  However, with WFP, I am not aware of what, if anything, could be added to the water to stop a freeze-up.  Has anyone found a solution?
Safety regs or not, if it's a choice of no work or trad methods, the WFP stuff will have to take a back seat in a freeze-up.
I remember one winter I was cleaning at somewhere around freezing point and it was working OK.  I went around the corner to do another side of the same house and it froze up on me.  The only difference was being exposed to a very light wind which was just enough to freeze water on the glass.
Have you ever left tools and water overnight in a bucket and found your tools encased in ice the next morning?   

[windows_chepstow]

I've got some 3 storey houses that i could'nt do the 4 very top windows  before i had wfp, if i tell them its going to be an extra 4 pound will they be shocked or am i charging too much ?

Brett, I'm in the same boat as you.  I'm cleaning all the extra windows for free at the moment (although one customer told me she would put up my price for that window above the conservatory by £1.00).

I plan to do them for another two months, to ensure they're perfect and then draft a well(ish) - written letter informing then if they want me to carry on doing them it'll be 'X' amount more.

Something along the lines of:

Second floor £1.50 more.
First floor £1.00 more.

Using a new system, especially in this weather, I want to gain my customers trust before putting their prices up.

[dai]

Tosh I'm in the same boat and I'm going to do exactly the same. Dai

[matt]

Ive been doing that extra window above the conserv for free for 1 year now

it takes 1 min max, and the customers like the idea that they are getting a window done that wasnt getting done before AND its FREE

of course the house takes less time, but thats not important

[brett walker]

Thanks for all your replies

I think im going to do the window above the conservatory for free it will keep the customer happy and prove that wfp can reach the awkward to reach windows safely that ladders can't.

Brett

[Chris Cottrell]

With all these wfp trolleys and freeze talk i think someone should invent the trolley water heater

[poles apart]

pj

Did you ever live in hole in road

[Chris Cottrell]

 

[poles apart]

Monty Python sketch

[jb1975]

Welcome to the real world!

If ever there was a time you might need to shut up and learn...
It could be this winter!

I have worked many times when water has frozen like jack frost on the glass, years ago, we scraped it off!  No doubt you young "experts" have some better way..."thermo" for 5squillion quid!  (I think you mean hot water from the tap)

Cold water doesn't cause chillblains.
Bare hands...
Am I hard?

We'll see

good point about wfp and risk of water freezing in winter. should some antifreeze or some other potion be added to the water, would anyone know?

edit: oops didnt see theshiner's earlier post not recommending antifreeze

[Ian_Giles]

There is a product that can be added to the water for us WFP'ers, it's some sort of industrial alcohol I think, I've read about it on Peter Fogwill's site, don't know what it cost though, or where you get it from.

I live in a pretty mild part of the country, but 21 years ago when I first started up, there would be days on end where the temp didn't get above freezing, one winter there was a 6 week period where we didn't see the sun, grey, leaden skies and sub zero temps all day long.
The worst windows were always the ones with double glazing, now almost all houses have the sealed units!
without double glazing the heat from the house would stop the water from freezing (if you were lucky)

We have been so, so lucky the last ten years, I really do hope that we are in a long term cycle of mild winters!!
(please, no comments about global warming, thats another can of worms altogether)

Those of you who have started up with only these mild winters to contend with will be in for a shock

Omnipole do a hot water system that is trolley orienteted I believe, but I could be wrong!
I'll have to have a look at their website to be sure!!
Their hot water system is quuite different to the Ionics one though.


Regards,

Ian

[24-7 S C Services]

Hi Everyone,

Firstly for Brett's benefited, I would put the price up and that includes all your clients’ houses. Even if they have no extra windows to clean, you should raise your price for each house by at least £2.50 you can explain to your clients, that because of the New WAHD, you have had to invest in the water fed pole method. The cost of this has been really high, but you invested in the technology to ensure, you can still offer your clients the best service available.

Now you may loose one or two clients, but you will also have the extra income from the price rise and also, you will be taking on new clients.

I would recommend that anyone investing in WFP should raise their prices. Don't forget, you have greater running costs with this method, compared to traditional.

With respect to the cold weather and freezing temperatures and also hot water wfp systems. I am currently working on a few designs for a DIY conversion. If it works, it would probably cost in the region of £300 to convert your current system, compared to the thousands the manufacturers charge. I will let you all know the outcome once I am finished this project.

Andrew

[tomo]

Hi everyone,

Just a point to consider, if you use hot water systems in winter is there a chance of glass cracking from the extreme's from cold to hot? Also does hot water freeze quicker than cold as it loses its temperature so quickly...these are maybe house wife tales but i have cleaned windows a long time and have seen those times of water on and it freezing suds and all . just a point thats all maybe someone knows more than me....maybe not. . Maybe its different in the cold shadow of the south wales valleys in winter. Brrrr