[clarkson]

 hi
 iam finding something a bit confusing.

 i do a lot of cleaning of all types and the rule of thumb is hot water is best. you wash your hands in hotwater, you mop with hotwater not cold. thermopure cleans windows better than cold. etc.

my old alltec has a heater and we use the term hot water extraction.

i have noticed though that nearly all the modern machines dont have heaters, the jag doesnt the the airflex doesnt.

i know you can buy magmas and the like, but when spending 3k plus you expect to get something complete?

i also notice a lot of cc with portys dont use there inline heaters and work cold.

i suppose in the days where prespray is king it you can make your spray up hot, its that that cleans after all.

then why do tm ers make a big deal out of there 1000000 degree capabilities if its not needed.

so hot or not that is the question?

cheers

john

[richy27]

taking the tm vs porty issue away.   some systems chemicals etc promote cold water cleaning  eg solutions base there whole range around cold water cleaning and there a lot of users get great results from this method .

my personal opinion is heat where required is a great advantage to have .   I believe the carpets upholstery dry quicker and greasy stains become light work without the need of aggressive chemicals.

i maybe incorrect but as portys have become bigger maybe manufacturers have moved away from heat because of the extra cables etc needed for say 3 vacs ( exception being alltec machine but heater i believe cuts out when third vac is on )

sure doug will give a more scientific opinon with his chemistry knowledge .

[Jim_77]

As Rich says, not enough amp load spread between 2 cables to power the vacs, pump and heater as well.

In the majority of cases, pre-spray temperature is irrelevant.  From a pump-up sprayer with a relatively fine jet the solution is cold before it even hits the carpet.  The heat may help mix powders better but that's about it.

The only time I ever purposely try to get pre-spray hot on the carpet is greasy restaurants or really trashed commercials, using powerburst, ultrapac, oxidisers etc.  With the hydraforce on the TM it has an '06 jet which doesn't atomise very finely, so you can flood out a carpet with hot solution and at least get some heat in there for a minute or two before it cools.

The heat you really need is in the extraction.  Since getting the TM, greasy horrible jobs I have previously done with the porty clean up MUCH better and I know most of that is down to the heat of the rinse.  I've tried starting up from cold on those carpets and it doesn't clean anywhere near as well as when the machine is piping hot.

But those jobs are few and far between, the majority of the time I really couldn't give a monkeys what temp the TM is kicking out!

[Tony Rowley]

I have used machines with and without heaters and i would say that i would go with heat every time, not sure wether the end result is any better although i suspect it marginally is.

IMO using heat just makes your job easier, with heat one pass, without heat 2 to 3 passes for the same result.

Tony

[Ian Gourlay]

I agree all machines should be priced with a heat exchanger.

But I would imagine its to do with the physiological £3000 barrier
 

[clinton]

Same as the above post they should all have an heat exchanger on them..but its the price as ian said..

[Neil Williams]

Heat cleans better and I won't be told otherwise.
Having tried some of that wash your cloths in cold water stuff, take it from me it doesn't come anywhere near what a hot wash does, and if it's noticable from a 45 minutes washing machine cycle it'll be noticable on a spray, quick scrub, dwell, rinse for carpets.

[Colin Day]

The other reason that some manufactures don't have an immersion heater as standard is that hot water can have detrimental effects on the pump head. Personally, my Alltec's pump head has NEVER suffered any problems in the 2 years I've had it. It heats water up to a point where the QC fittings got too hot to touch.

I do change the plunger kit and seals of my pump every 500 hours, maybe this is why I have never had a problem

[clarkson]

 hi
 this is exactly as i thought you simply need need hot water for cc extraction.

 what confused me is i know several experienced operators. who have or are selling there in line heaters. so will now be working cold?

 i hate seperate add ons they ar ealways fiddley to work with.

 you start adding a magma to the bill on a porty and you are getting very close to used prowler money.

 cheers

 john

[Shaun_Ashmore]

You need to buy a BMW everything is an add on!

Shaun

[Neil Williams]

Personally, my Alltec's pump head has NEVER suffered any problems in the 2 years I've had it. It heats water up to a point where the QC fittings got too hot to touch.

The book answer would be that hot water damages the pump. I fitted an emersion to my Scorpian about 2 years ago and whilst the maximum temp is set at 70 degrees it hasn't caused the pump any problems.
All the same just to be on the safe side, today I bought a magma heater off Steve so I can turn the initial heat down for pump use, although I will only use it when it comes to minging carpets.

[AJB]

It's a total fallacy about hot water damaging pumps,
yes it will damage them, but all heat exchangers are
fitted after the pump. So that problem is non existant.
Only machine manufacturers that do not fit heaters, try to
make an issue of this, to justify the cost saving/insufficient
electrical power available. All manufacturers talk up the
benefits of their machines, and rubbish or talk down the options
that they don't provide.
The only heaters that can put too much heat through
the pump are immersion heaters. Years ago myself and friends
used Woodbridge machines, with the thermostats turned right
up, i.e boiling the tank. Strangely we never had Flojet pump failures
due to heat issues.

[Adam P]

i rarely use the heater simple because it's a pain to have to use 2 inline hoses when often one will do, and also to have to do another trip to the van, find somewhere decent for it (which isn't the easiest thing considering the only empty space is usually carpets to be cleaned) plug it in, and then also when you're done you have to cool it down by switching it off and running water through it until it goes cold.