[Steve CM]

what is so special about the ionics over the pure freedom?

They both have the same components don't they?

im not slagging pure freedom off steve, just that the thermopure is more developed than the pure freedom setup, im after any experiences people have had before making a decision

i think your over complicating the process.

The purefreedom is exactly the same as a thermopure in terms of what it does and how it does it. i think the only difference is that purefreedoms is on demand as where the thermo pure can circulate back to the tank. from what other people have said i think this process caines diesel?? i maybe wrong though. Also as smeone has said you can adjust the temp on the pure freedom.

I seriously looked at the thermopure and nearly went for it but i'm glad i never.

[the bfg]

Also why I'm not keen to employ let alone take out a big loan. Get rfozen up, plus the Christmas break and there could be no income for several weeks yet the loan plus the wages keep going out.

he best not do it then if its not what you would do,   should we all take notice of you and your negativity ?

[Dave Willis]

Sorry I spoke.

[Dave Willis]

Richy will do whatever Richy wants. However, having followed Richy's posts I will say his business runs like a rollercoaster with some really big dips. In my opinion he needs to think very hard before taking out a massive loan and look at the best and worst senarios. A bad winter could be crippling for him. Will the expenditure be worth it, will he actually be any better off? How much over the full term will it actually cost? Sometimes you have to look at the negative side - you would be pretty thick if you didn't.
It's just a forum so hey ho - ignore me and borrow to the hilt and buy the most expensive sytems available I couldn't give a toss. 

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Richy will do whatever Richy wants. However, having followed Richy's posts I will say his business runs like a rollercoaster with some really big dips. In my opinion he needs to think very hard before taking out a massive loan and look at the best and worst senarios. A bad winter could be crippling for him. Will the expenditure be worth it, will he actually be any better off? How much over the full term will it actually cost? Sometimes you have to look at the negative side - you would be pretty thick if you didn't.
It's just a forum so hey ho - ignore me and borrow to the hilt and buy the most expensive sytems available I couldn't give a toss. 

Couldn't agree more.

At least some people have an ounce of sense!

[richywilts]

cheers trevor, im sure it is a good system and the temperature change is useful, your in lancashire arent ya if poss would it be ok to come take a look at your system were only in ellesmere port

of course you can, if you give me a ring we can arrange a time to suit my number is 07793322100

cheers trevor

[richywilts]

thing is tho even if i have 3 vans with 3 of these hot systems in them and i can work for a whole month where you cant and each van does a minimum of £1000 a week thats £12000 coming in, say £1000 for loan, £2500 wages, £4800 for tax and vat, £1500 business costs, im still takin over £2grand home which is £2grand more than you and your cold system!!!!!!!! so yes i see it as a big risk but isnt not working a risk as well, i want to provide window cleaning all year round for my customers also we are now marketing a lot of work for the winter so that we have days where we can work doing other adhoc stuff so were prepared for the winter

[ronnie paton]

couple of questions richy is that a one employee or two per van? either way its not alot of wages?

Have you checked out insurance? has i guess youll have three more more vans?

it will pay if you get the work but ii believe you can grow way to quickly and your on your back foot from the start has from what you have said you have never made a profit yet.

also does this wage include your manager and canvasser??

for me a van with two men needs to do 2k which but that is nearer to 300k and that would be some canvaser to bring this in short term.

when i started my business  iwent with the flow and invested when i really had no other option ie i worked long days untill i could emoploy and then we worked long days untill i needed a new van that way were still making a profit short and long term.

but to be fair we go into business to do things our own way and thats what your doing, but youll find many will not agree or feel they could justify such quick fix gamble

[Scrimble]

do you even have the work for 3 vans? or is it all big ideas? sounds mad to me and very very very expensive

whats wrong with 3 old vans with cold diy systems until you have the customer base which can provide work for what you need? then go and buy some gold plated system?

amazes me how some windys forget the most important part of the window cleaning business, CUSTOMERS! without them you have nothing

[Dave Willis]

thing is tho even if i have 3 vans with 3 of these hot systems in them and i can work for a whole month where you cant and each van does a minimum of £1000 a week thats £12000 coming in, say £1000 for loan, £2500 wages, £4800 for tax and vat, £1500 business costs, im still takin over £2grand home which is £2grand more than you and your cold system!!!!!!!! so yes i see it as a big risk but isnt not working a risk as well, i want to provide window cleaning all year round for my customers also we are now marketing a lot of work for the winter so that we have days where we can work doing other adhoc stuff so were prepared for the winter

Do Ionics fit a snow plough? It wasn't the temperatures alone that stopped me working. It was Christmas Holiday week then the  fact that vehicles couldn't access the properties anyway due to the ice on the estate roads. Richey, it's just that your posts were bleating about how you had no money, no interest in cleaning windows and couldn't afford to take a wage from the business. I just find your business brain a little odd if you think borrowing thousands will sort everything out. Still, it's the way Governments run so you could be right  :

I too have a hot system now - cost me about £170 extra.

£2500 wages per month is what many traders take on their own - you're going to have to pay six workers plus your own wage back in the office. So, that's the possibility of seven wages per week, even if you pay peanuts thats getting on for £2100 per week or £8400 plus your canvassers wages per month. Three lots of van tax, three times the servicing costs three times the insurance three time the fuel, holidays for six workers, quarterly vat returns, accountants fees etc. cover for sickness.
Good luck

[richywilts]

thats your decision to go for the cheap option, personally im not really into the diy system etcs and bodging things, yes i did say i didnt like the window cleaning for certain reasons i.e when customers wind me up n leave gates etc unlocked i dont actually mind the cleaning when things go to plan, ok some of you may not agree with how i run my business but im building for long term not short term profit, and i know things may seem a little crazy over a computer but we have done cash flow forecasts etc and taken things into account. we dont have enough work for three vans immediately but by the time we get the loan etc prob looking at november maybe, but by that time we should have won £50,000 worth of work by that time so two vans will be at capacity and a little left for the third van.

some may percieve it as madness, but we are also continually targetting commercial works etc as well and are hopeful of securing some decent sized contracts

i just see it as ambition, we have other things in the pipeline too to generate money.

[Mike_G]

Good luck to you Richy. But if customers leaving gates locked wind you up when its just you imagine how bad it will be when it happens to your employees and you still have to pay their wages! Still others cope so no doubt you can as well.

[david watts]

do you even have the work for 3 vans? or is it all big ideas? sounds mad to me and very very very expensive

whats wrong with 3 old vans with cold diy systems until you have the customer base which can provide work for what you need? then go and buy some gold plated system?

amazes me how some windys forget the most important part of the window cleaning business, CUSTOMERS! without them you have nothing

good post this you sometimes need to do a billy bragg[back to basics] last two winters were killers
even with a carlos wan fandango hot system

[TomCrowther]

If this winter is like the last two, only the guys with 4wd vans and hot water systems will be able to get out their drive and do any work.
In my humble opinion, hot water will allow you to work in -4 and lower temps, but chuck three feet of snow in the mix and you are just as doomed as the rest of us.
I do admire your ambition Richy and feel you will make a success but steady growth is the order of the day.

[Ste M]

the year before last i had a lwb transit rwd, every day it snowed i couldnt work simply due to the fact i couldnt drive anywhere, last december (just before the bad weather arrived) i bought a swb transit and luckily it had traction control. ive also got a L5 and a fogwash, i never lost one single day to the weather as my van got through it all and my hot water (dont forget two of the cheapest sytsmes on the market) systems coped with it. ok there is a knack to the way you work as in getting the water flowing before putting the hose on the floor so the warm water is moving and will therefore not freeze, i also had a few bags of grit as well as notes to put through customers doors to explain that i had cleaned and gritted after me as well as keeping water to a minimum around walkways. i had the odd issue with water freezing but each time this happened i called the custie up that night and asked how the glass looked and they said it cleared ok with no spots.

The problem with ionics is that people will not pay the money for them, how many of you on here though would have a system if money was no object? i bet a lot of you would be knocking at their door. ive seen there systems and ive heard people who have them speak very highly of them, yes there expensive to buy and maintain but so is every top of the range system. as ive said ive got a diy ish hot water system but yes if i had the money i would get a ionics one, but to be totally honest i still think i would struggle buying one over a pure freedom set up as i feel if that had issues i would be able to fix it very quickly whereas the ionics one may be a bit more specialist and therefore you may lose some days whilst waiting for a fix

[northstar161]

Excuse my ignorance; but what is an L5 and a fogwash please?

[the bfg]

thats your decision to go for the cheap option, personally im not really into the diy system etcs and bodging things, yes i did say i didnt like the window cleaning for certain reasons i.e when customers wind me up n leave gates etc unlocked i dont actually mind the cleaning when things go to plan, ok some of you may not agree with how i run my business but im building for long term not short term profit, and i know things may seem a little crazy over a computer but we have done cash flow forecasts etc and taken things into account. we dont have enough work for three vans immediately but by the time we get the loan etc prob looking at november maybe, but by that time we should have won £50,000 worth of work by that time so two vans will be at capacity and a little left for the third van.

some may percieve it as madness, but we are also continually targetting commercial works etc as well and are hopeful of securing some decent sized contracts

i just see it as ambition, we have other things in the pipeline too to generate money.

beats me why you even want to run your owm business when there are plenty on here who want to run it for you !

dont be positive just be negative as thats way forward judging by some of the replys.


make your owm mistakes mate and dont let others make them for you.

the snow has been a problem the last 2 years but its been a problem for THE WHOLE COUNTRY and not just window cleaners,  remember supermarkets wern't getting deliveries and the ammount of damage caused to the roads tells you how freakish that weather was.

but when the snow cleared and the temps were still below zero and other window cleaners were having problems with water freezing on glass well the ones using hot didn't have that problem.

and as for this nonesense of waster freezing on the ground well thats just a load of tosh,  you get some water drip down but nothing worth bothering about unless your a Tazmanian devil then you should let someone else do them  

if you do decide to go for it then make sure Ionics throw in a swift pole and a glyder per van  

[DG Cleaning]

Hot water freezes quicker than cold water. So while it may not freeze in the tank or hoses because its being heated it should freeze quicker on glass than cold.

[the bfg]

Hot water freezes quicker than cold water. So while it may not freeze in the tank or hoses because its being heated it should freeze quicker on glass than cold.

well it doesnt cos Ive worked in it and its always been fine,  water just run off glass EVERY TIME.


so now you know that there will be no more need for sleepless nights for you

[DG Cleaning]

I'm not saying it will freeze on the glass just that it will freeze quicker than cold. There's a scientific term for it which escapes me but its something like the Mumpasa Effect which proves it.