[DP]

This question keeps popping up all the time. Many think a website is just another form of advertising (which in part it is) and expect either good or bad results like an advert in a newspaper.

To go any further you have to understand that to sell anything you have to communicate (obvious you say) well that’s half the problem. How do you communicate all the aspects of your services or products, value or benefit within the nanosecond of attention we manage to steal from someone’s busy life.

Well there is two ways, either we sit back and wait for someone to want something, and hope that they ignore the deluge of other businesses to miraculously find you - or - we persecute them to death with junk mail, phone calls, door knocking etc. The odd thing is that both of these work to some degree very well.

If we further understand that the heart of any business is the ability to create/find and exploit opportunity. The more avenues you explore the more opportunities you bring to your table.

A web site is not only an advertisement it is the most cost efficient bill board, shop window, market stall you can have. Where else can you display and communicate everything you are, every service in detail, every product, everything you would like to say (if you had the opportunity) the list is endless.

However its completely pointless if you think it will work on its own out in hyper space waiting for search engines to find it. Although a website is a very powerful tool, it has to be put to work. You need to still have your flyers, adverts etc but make sure that you point everyone to it.

The key is do not depend on any one source of marketing or advertising, give yourself the best opportunity and use as many as you can with a web site being  top of your  list.

Even CMS has one (perhaps its just for technical reasons)   

[Fox]

DP - What a good post.

Gets the point across nicely that we all need to have a comprehensive marketing strategy.  There has been so many posts on this board lately asking how to get contracts, I wonder how many of them advertise efficiently.

As already pointed out there is little point to having a web site at all if all it is going to do is sit in space waiting for someone to stumble on it.  I feel a web site is the final link in the advertising chain, companies need to know where to find it (web address) and be interested enough in your services to go through it so the first steps in advertising are just as important, how many people put as much time and effort into their leaflets, adverts and sales calls as they do designing a web site?

In short to sell your services people need to know who you are and what you do.  Without marketing how else do you get the message across?

Anyway DP - wheres the web site then? 
Fox



   

[DP]

Fox
What web site is that then " oh you mean THE WEB SITE" just a page away and some tweeking 

[CMS]

Even CMS has one (perhaps its just for technical reasons)   

I'm not entirely sure that I know where you're coming from there.

Maybe you'd like to explain??

[CMS]

Perhaps not then?

[DP]

Blimey CMS 30 mins for a reply that was a bit ambitious.

The reference was to the first part of a previous post you made.

  "Firstly, don't bother wasting your money advertising. In 24 years I have never won a contract through advertising"

It seems you found a use for it after all, or is a web site not advertising, as I said perhaps it was for technical reasons that you produced one for you own company.

Misinterpretation can be very dangerous especially in the context of advice to people who might depend on it

[CMS]

There is a definite difference between advertising for advertisings sake and a web site.

Although I have only spent half a day on my web site for the new venture, it will get me by for now.

Forgive me for appearing rude but you seem to have it in for me for some reason, DP (not sure why).

As has been said earlier in this thread, a web site is pointless as an advertising tool unless you tell anyone its there (let's forget search engines for now). They won't know where to look.

However, once a Client knows where to look (and when mine's set up properly) they may do such things as order consumables online.  They can even look at performance monitoring data for their own building by logging into a web site.

I do a lot of 'cold calling' as you know. I could never put the amount of info on a business card that I could put on a web site. It gives them further info on my company BUT I CAN put a URL on a business card.

Just so that we can all understand where you're coming from and why you seem to have it in for me, why not post your URL on here so we can all comment on it?

[CMS]

A web site is not only an advertisement it is the most cost efficient bill board, shop window, market stall you can have. Where else can you display and communicate everything you are, every service in detail, every product, everything you would like to say (if you had the opportunity) the list is endless.

However its completely pointless if you think it will work on its own out in hyper space waiting for search engines to find it. Although a website is a very powerful tool, it has to be put to work. You need to still have your flyers, adverts etc but make sure that you point everyone to it.

Make your mind up lad!

[Fox]

CML -

you seem to have it in for me for some reason, DP

Just so that we can all understand where you're coming from and why you seem to have it in for me, why not post your URL on here so we can all comment on it?

Strong words 'have it in for me'  I'm not sure they are the right ones!  I have read DP's and your posts and yes you do seem to rub each other up the wrong way, however I can see DP's point, you tell people not to advertise, that cold calling is the only way to go forward and nothing else works (you state this rather strongly in some of your posts).  I think DP feels that such strong advice to newbies can be damaging and has got his point across by the statement he put at the end of his first post on this thread.

I must admit CMS that there has been several times when you have come across as the 'know it all' and when you put posts up after people such as 'that's summed up what I was going to say' or 'this seems to cover everything I said'  it seems that you are giving your 'approval' which I personally find very patronising.

You are not the only very experienced person on this forum so stop taking ownership for other peoples input, you have some very good advice to give at times, but seem to throw your toys out of the pram when someone doesn't agree.

What has DP's URL got to do with anything?

Fox

[CMS]

Fox

What I find annoying is not that people disagree with what I have to say, after all everyone has a right to their own opinion - me, you, DP and everyone on here.

What I object to is someone being critical of what I have to say (or anyone else for that matter) when they clearly haven't read it properly.

Your last post is a typical example in which you say "You tell people not to advertise". I can't remember ever telling people not to advertise. They can spend their money on what they like.

I remember it more like this...........

A newbie comes on here and asks advice in the form of "Does advertising work for Commercial Cleaning?" I, as someone who has been in the industry for many, many years (along with others on here, I know) pointed out that I had never won a contract through a Client replying to an advert.

If an opinion is sought via a post, you will very likely get an answer from me; but that is only my opinion and there will be others who have their own opinions formed from their own experiences.

If that person then thinks that they have mastered it after 6 months and doesn't want the benefit of 20 years experience, it's up to them.

My advice is free and I've learned the hard way.

Remember, when I started there was no such thing as the internet/discussion forums.

Oh! If only I had had the benefit of something like this at the beginning I would probably have made fewer mistakes.

Yes, I DO get upset when people don't heed the advice thet THEY have asked for but only because I don't want them to go down some of the roads I did.

Is that so wrong?

With regard to the difference between advertising and web sites..................

I don't see a website as a direct advert. It is merely a tool, an online brochure if you like (as explained perfectly by DP) whereby a prospective Client can find out more information about you ONCE THE INITIAL DIRECT CONTACT HAS BEEN MADE.

Over the years I have tried many ways to build turnover and I'm not daft enough to stick with a procedure that isn't working.

Direct contact worked (and continues to work) for me - advertising didn't.

But that's only my opinion  I may be proved wrong eventually. The cleaning industry and the way it is sold has changed beyond all recognition over the past 20 years. Nobody really knows how well the internet/websites etc. will work. We'll have to wait and see.

With regard to my 'supposed conflict' with DP................

I have actually re-read all of this thread and agree that DP's original post is an excellent one although it was the last line that I objected to. There was absolutely no need for it.

[dustdees]

Dp & Cms,

Now then boys,

We all have strengths and weakness in everything that we do. Cms is good at cold calling, I'm C**P but my hubby is fantastic.
Some companies don't need to advertise, but some do!!

Each to their own

DP, sound like you are good at flying off the handle when some one hits te nail on the head and yes CMS has come across a bit strong sometimes, but as you put it, we all learn from our mistakes!!!

If I had to ask advice, then I am more likely to take it fom someone who has been in the biz for over 20 years, they learned the hard way, without internet and all that jazz.
But everyone has the chance to take any advice and use it, if it works for them then, ok, but agian that come down to strengths and weakness.

If you don't want advicem then don't ask for it!! Simple Answer to that one.

Personally, cold calling don't work for me, flyers work for me , but most people don't rate them.

Get on with your biz and do what you both feel you are good at and stop spending wasted time getting at each other.
Nobody has got it in for anyone onthis post, and if they did they should be banned from using it!!

Grow up, especially DP!!!!!

Denise

[CMS]

Can I just add something else here...............

I have never been in the Domestic cleaning business so i am certainly not qualified to comment or offer any advice.

However, I can see that domestic and commercial cleaning should be marketed in very different ways.

I happen to believe that advertising in the form of leaflet drops, yellow pages etc. could work well in the domestic sector but certainly not in the commercial sector.

If I was selling to the domestic market I would put adverts/posters up on workplace noticeboards. Has anyone tried it? What was the response?

But......I stick by my original comment. I have NEVER known an Office Manager to choose his Cleaning Contractor from the Yellow Pages or a newspaper advert.

[dustdees]

CMS,

I have put out leaflets in offices, supermarkets, and shop windows!!

Doesn't work mate, flyer dropping in houses does, for me anyway!!

My ad comes out in Thomson on Tuesday, so can't comment on that one yet.

Referrals , on any line of biz has got to be the best tho eh?

CMS, don't let DP bully you, prehaps a mid life crisis is looming!!!!!


Denise

[CMS]

CMS,

I have put out leaflets in offices, supermarkets, and shop windows!!

Doesn't work mate, flyer dropping in houses does, for me anyway!!


Denise

I am thinking more along the lines of a permanent display in a large commercial office, not a leaflet drop.

For instance, close to us there is a large Inland Revenue Office employing thousands of people, many of them busy working Mum's.

They all read the company notice board and if there was something on there permanently it could help.

I'm sure there must be thousands of women who sit at work worrying about the housework they have to do when they get home!

[DP]

CMS

No I don’t have it in for you (I don’t have the time), there is nothing wrong with the quote above, I’m far to old to be your son and no I’m not putting up my URL because I don’t need to show off or seek approval and for future reference next time, you need to try a lot harder.

Now lets get back to the point. If you put yourself on a podium to give advice based on experience or qualification then that’s great providing you really do have either. Clearly CMS on this particular occasion doesn’t and that’s what makes it damaging.

There is nothing to prove, it works every day for a lot of companies, the fact that CMS could not get it to work reflects personal failure nothing more and hardly the basis for advice to anyone. I’m entitled to say what I think is wrong and demonstrate the point (although I had only just started).

Everyone can be arrogant and patronising, its a great tool for commanding respect , that is until it bites you in the bum, however most choose not to be, a bit late to start being humble CSM but it seems to have worked for you with Dustdees, however I thought the lost puppy thing (domestic cleaning) was a bit over the top, where’s your dignity.

Dustdees stop being silly. 
  

[dustdees]

DON'T GET YOUR POINT MATE,

JUST TRYING TO PUT SOME REASONABLE INSIGHT INTO AN UNNESSAY RIFT ON THE FORUM!!

[CMS]

I don't think I need to add anything to this, do I?

I rest my case 

[DP]

CMS
Reading back, I now realise that there is issues with you regarding both reality and perception which I haven't considered.  i.e.

"Firstly, don't bother wasting your money advertising. In 24 years I have never won a contract through advertising"

and your reply to FOX (your version)

What I object to is someone being critical of what I have to say (or anyone else for that matter) when they clearly haven't read it properly.

Your last post is a typical example in which you say "You tell people not to advertise". I can't remember ever telling people not to advertise. They can spend their money on what they like.

I remember it more like this...........

A newbie comes on here and asks advice in the form of "Does advertising work for Commercial Cleaning?" I, as someone who has been in the industry for many, many years (along with others on here, I know) pointed out that I had never won a contract through a Client replying to an advert.

Well I have read that a dozen times and no matter how hard I try I cant get those words to re-arrange themselves to look any different.

[cloverclean]

Shall I put all the toys back in the pram

[ValueValeting]

Shall I put all the toys back in the pram

Only if it was in your original quote..