[gordons]

I've just read the post about licenses if you knew a window cleaner without a licence would you report them.

not all window cleaners without licenses in scotland are cowboys. I have a license myself but i can understand why some legite window cleaners dont have one the reason is because the amount you pay and then you see all the window cleaners without one that the local authoritys dont bother with.

So would you report someone without a license.

[mark dew]

no. regardless of how i felt towards them.

[Ian_Giles]

Mmm, a good question, not really as easy to answer as it seems.

If it was someone responsible, someone paying their taxes, someone who wasn't undercutting me, someone doing a professional job, then probably not.

However; If it was some jack-the-lad taking the mick out of me for wasting my money on a licence, then I might think again.
Just as I would if he was a dole cheat (I'd shop those sods straight away ).

If, as has been described on another thread, the police/council decided on a crackdown, and I get done for not displaying my licence, even though I have one, and thee is a guy in the next street who gets missed, but doesn't have a licence, then I'd probably shop him just cos I was in a funk

But then if the licence system is a farce, and for the most part completely ignored or abused then I probably would not shop them. My anger would be directed at the authorities and the licencing system.

I think that licencing is in theory a reasonable idea, and not just for window cleaners, but just about any self employed tradesman.
But these things often become draconian, with miles of red tape and form filling to go through.
What happens if you've just come out of clink and you're trying to go straight?
Are you going to be refused a licence because you have a criminal record?

Or perhaps you are just starting out and want to test the water before you go through the process of obtaining a licence.
Presumably you must have a licence before you even start touting for business.
Or perhaps you do mobile car valeting and have a handful of window cleaning accounts as well, maybe only a couple of days worth a month, what point getting a licence for that?


Mark says that he wouldn't shop them, but what if you lose a few choice accounts to an unlicenced window cleaner? He could have cost you £50 a week...I'd shop him like a shot   No question

Regards,


Ian

[mark dew]

Mark says that he wouldn't shop them, but what if you lose a few choice accounts to an unlicenced window cleaner? He could have cost you £50 a week...I'd shop him like a shot   No question

yes, it's easy for me to say an outright no because i haven't yet lost any work or been in a position to get upset with anyone. It could well change.
I've only been cleaning for 17 months and maybe am still in the honeymoon period.
If i had family to support and not just myself i would probably be much more protective over everything.
I dropped my town accounts after 3 months of starting and focused on the villages. Less competition, higher prices and no reloading the car to drive round the back to finish the job. (God i hated that!!)
A quicker network than could be built up in towns as well.
I feel my accounts are there for me to lose rather than for someone else to take.
I also feel that by supporting any policing of w/c will just endorse (our local council, at least, to impose) more rules, red tape and costs.
Saying all this, i do support a license in theory and agree with Ian that it isn't a black and white issue. If it was personal i would try to sort it out privately.
But I still think no Ian. But i respect the fact that yourself and many others on here have spent many years building up your business and reputation.
In those circumstances i think your hands are tied more than myself and would have fewer options but to use the existing framework.
Ooooh, the rain has stopped. Gotta go now.

mark

[Newwfpgatherer]

I don't have the facts:  But this is a hypothetical situation.
If licences become the rule down here, I would promptly educate all my "choice accounts" on the virtues of employing someone with a licence, as that is partly what the licence would be for, surely.  then if someone without a licence was to come along trying to compete for the same client, I would remind them of the licence.  If someone is going to flout that regulation, can he be trusted to take care of business trustwothily in other ways?  I would like to think my "choice accounts" would make the wise decision.  If they dropped me for the bandit, well they weren't "choice account"!  There are more who want to employ trustworthy ethical tradesmen than not.
Why worry.
Don't think I would "shop"  him, unless he became vindictive or threatening, then he'd see my "teeth".
I would not hesitate in making his reputation known to all.  but I think these things have a way of showing themselves up.

Pj

[Sarah Sarill]

If the law was that all w/c  needed a licence to operate and they impacted on my business then Yes I would.

If I had paid a fee to get one, complied with all the necessary insurances etc etc etc etc and he is making the same money as me without the cost then what's right.

Whats right is not negotiable - the law is the law and if you break it then take the consequences.

Gordons, Is this a loaded question ?  Do you know someone ?  And are you ?

Regards,

Sarah

[Newwfpgatherer]

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[gaza]

dONT START ME OFF AGAIN NOT MUCH DIFF BETWEEN SHOP OR SHOOT BOTH WAYS THEY WOULD BE ,,,,,, AFTER LOOSING HALF MY WORK IS IT REALLY A QUESTION,
ifTHAT GUTTER SNIPE WHO UNDER CUT ME WASNT LICENCED WOULD HAVE GIVEN ME AN EXCUSE TO PUT MY HANDS ON HIM
BUT IN A COUPLE OFF MONTHS HES BEING SORTED BIG STYLE
ALREADY ANOTHER W/C HAS HAD HIM FOR TAKING SOME OFF HIS CUSTOMERS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME GRASSING  8)HONEST : HE SEEMS TO THINK HE CAN UNDERCUT ANYBODY HAVE 16/17 YEAROLDS WORKING FOR PEANUTS PUTTING THEIR LIVES AT RISK
BUT MY MATE AT THE TAX OFFICE IS LOOKING INTO IT AS WE SPEAK,THEN WE WILL SEE WHOSE SMART,GOT A CUSTOMER WHO WORKS AT THE DOLE OFFICE WOW AM i  GOING TO HAVE FUN WITH THIS PAIR. NOW IF WE HAD TO BE LICENCED NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENNED BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE LICENCED IF YOU HAD TO PRODUCE P/LIABILITY INCOME TAX REFF NO ETC ETC,BECAUSE THEY WOULDNT BE ABLE TO WORK CASH IN HAND.

WATCH LOOK OBSERVE AIM FIRE

GAZA

[williamx]

BUT MY MATE AT THE TAX OFFICE IS LOOKING INTO IT AS WE SPEAK,THEN WE WILL SEE WHOSE SMART,GOT A CUSTOMER WHO WORKS AT THE DOLE OFFICE WOW AM i  GOING TO HAVE FUN WITH THIS PAIR

Gaza

Be careful of the Data Protection Act.

[gordons]

i don't know anyone but i do have a lisence

[Newwfpgatherer]

I understand Gaza, I followed some of what happened, and it is out of order, if in that situation I would certainly be seeking some recource, but don't ask me how1

But.......Martin Luther King once said, "The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy.  Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

He was shot dead!  Corrupt some say.  However he made a lot of sense.

Pj

[gaza]

William all ive done is report as ive found out things or finding out diff things,a customer just rang and said theres a shower of lads doing no 3 are they nicking your work,No I replied that customer said shes cancelled cus she needs to save money,he replied what £1.50p per month,better go and give her a pint of milk if shes that skint he replied ,now this guy is an old age pensioner.

 gaza

[williamx]

Gordons

As you are a licensed window cleaner, do you think they are worth it or do you reckon that they should be scrapped, or reformed in some way?

[dai]

It may be down to my age and past experience, but I am highly sceptical over ever increasing regulation. Huge sums of money is being spent on protecting the environment for future generations, and rightly so. But what is happening to our rights? My dad as an Irish citizen joined the British army and fought at the Dunkirk and Normandy landings. He believed he was fighting for freedom. Our freedom is being continuously eroded by increased legislation. Some of it in the guise of protecting the same freedoms.
If Joe Bloggs wants to earn extra money for Chrismas, he may decide to go out cleaning windows at wekends. It's his undeniable right to do so if he chooses. True I wouldn't like it if he was poaching my clients and undercutting my prices. Unfair competition? Well I pay scant regard to that when I go to the supermarket to shop, whilst the village store is stuggling to stay in business.
I go to the supermarket because it's cheaper. How can I complain if my w/c clients go for a cheaper guy? I would be a hypocrite to do so.
In order to protect our rights and freedom. We have to have total respect for the rights and freedom of others.
As to whether a window cleaning license shoul be adopted for the U.K as a whole.  am affraid that today's administration fee soon becomes tomorrows stealth tax.
Live and let live. Dai

[SWC_70]

Well said Dai. I agree wholeheartedly.