[zeusjazmin]

as many of you will know ,here in ayrshire scotland ,us window cleaners have to be registered with the local council.
what you are about to read is very hard to beleive but true......
today at work i was busy graffting away when i heard the voices say "excuse me ,may we have a word" i turned round to see two cops standing.
they tell me they are checking out all the window cleaners to see if they are licensed.
i give my name date of birth adress and license number ,then tell them my license is 30 feet away in the car ,would they like to see it,they said yes.
after walking the short distance and producing my license i hear the words,"we now caution you that you are being charged for working without having a valid license on your person"
it made no difference to them that it was in the car.
turns out there were other window cleaners in town with theirs in their cars ,but they were also charged
so beware anyone in my situation!

[dai]

Zeus jazmin, Have the cops up there got nothing better to do?You know like catching burglars, child molesters, and cheating doleites doing WC on the side.
A diving friend of mine does the insides of an aquarium, I mean inside with the fish." Licence! It's here Mr Plod, bit soggy, hope you can read it". What a load of rollacks. DAI

[windows_chepstow]

Zeus,

Are you saying that by law your license has to be physically on your person, otherwise you're committing an offence?

And because yours was in your car, they charged you; even though you showed them it within minutes.  Yes you are, I've just re-read your post.

That's outragous.  Haven't the police got better things to be doing, rather than meeting silly crime targets.

If I were you, I'd write to my local MP.  Lay it on thick too.  You're a hard-working decent; law-abiding member of society.  Why are these coppers nit-picking rather than sorting out the drug/car/burglary crime your area is (maybe) riddled with.

I'd probably copy it to the local paper too.

I hope you do something about it.  If you want help drafting a letter to your MP and local rag, e-mail me.

That's bang out of order.

Oh, and as window cleaners, a physical job with no real protection for our pockets, especially for an official bit of paper; out in all weathers; often soaked to the skin; how are you meant to protect your license, other than leaving it safely in your vehicle?

[Sarah Sarill]

Zeus,

Are you saying that by law your license has to be physically on your person, otherwise you're committing an offence?

And because yours was in your car, they charged you; even though you showed them it within minutes.  Yes you are, I've just re-read your post.

That's outragous.  Haven't the police got better things to be doing, rather than meeting silly crime targets.

If I were you, I'd write to my local MP.  Lay it on thick too.  You're a hard-working decent; law-abiding member of society.  Why are these coppers nit-picking rather than sorting out the drug/car/burglary crime your area is (maybe) riddled with.

I'd probably copy it to the local paper too.

I hope you do something about it.  If you want help drafting a letter to your MP and local rag, e-mail me.

That's bang out of order.

Oh, and as window cleaners, a physical job with no real protection for our pockets, especially for an official bit of paper; out in all weathers; often soaked to the skin; how are you meant to protect your license, other than leaving it safely in your vehicle.

Tosh has said it all - rules for the sake of rules I say !!!

Sarah

[rosskesava]

That's incredible. 

I thought things like that just had to be readily made available if requested by the Police.

Also, being a window cleaner we often get a bit soggy anyway? What would happen if you were doing facia's with a jet spray? You'd be a bit more than just soggy.

As well as what Tosh suggests above, I'd make a formal complaint to the Police about it that the caution was unwarranted, uneeded and served no purpose other than to demonstrate unreasonable use of Police authority and powers.

Cheers

[Davindo Cleana]

As an ex cop I find that embarrassing - we used to called idiots like that 'jobsworths' - tended to be either special constables (no offence to the decent ones) or traffic cops who, as we also used to say, had 'never seen an angry man' i.e. would fill in forms and dish out tickets all day but run like hell when you needed real help

Make a formal complaint in person at a police station - make sure it goes in writing - and don't accept an informal resolution - when its on paper it has to go through proper procedures
And while you are on, phone your local paper and get a photographer/journo down to do a storey

[Paul Coleman]

as many of you will know ,here in ayrshire scotland ,us window cleaners have to be registered with the local council.
what you are about to read is very hard to beleive but true......
today at work i was busy graffting away when i heard the voices say "excuse me ,may we have a word" i turned round to see two cops standing.
they tell me they are checking out all the window cleaners to see if they are licensed.
i give my name date of birth adress and license number ,then tell them my license is 30 feet away in the car ,would they like to see it,they said yes.
after walking the short distance and producing my license i hear the words,"we now caution you that you are being charged for working without having a valid license on your person"
it made no difference to them that it was in the car.
turns out there were other window cleaners in town with theirs in their cars ,but they were also charged
so beware anyone in my situation!

This is the best argument of all for using WFP.  At the sound of "Excuse me ........" you turn around with the brush still spraying water and afterwards, pretend that you are really sorry for soaking the idiots.

[H h20]

I would not let this rest,you should go and see as many people as you can to find out the real truth about what they think they new about the law,get those lazy plods to do some real work and give the hard working folk a rest,did they think you were trying to burgle the place or clean the windows for god sake,Gaz,(really annoyd)

[matt]

without being arguementative, i have often seen "scots" complain about the lack of "officals" police'ing the licence for window cleaners, it seems they were doing it, but a touch over the top

[Ian_Giles]

The mind boggles, it really does, proof of licence should have been enough, with perhaps a little pompous finger wagging to tell you it should be on you at all times.

Quite, Quite pathetic.

Make the complaints, drag in the press, email 'The Sun' or any other tabloid, such morons deserve to have their stupidity exposed and their noses rubbed in it

What an utterly pointless exersize to charge those with licences, surely the whole bloody point is to catch those [i]without[/i] licences

Make your official complaint to the police, but whatever you do, get a well worded email off to the press, and not just your local press either, even the big boys can make hay with this type of story.

Simmering!

Ian

[matt]

Oh the sun would love this story wouldnt they

Blairs boys Clean up

would read the headline

[Londoner]

I'm not convinced that it is a police offence in any case. If the licence is issued under a Local Authority Statute the police don't have any power of enforcement.
They can ask to see it for the purposes of checking that you have one or that you are who you are supposed to be.
Over and above that they can only report back to the council that you had it in your van.
Police don't have unlimed powers although some may think they have.
Mind you that old guy who was thrown out of the labour party conference was later detained by Brighton police under ANTI-TERRORISM laws so maybe you got off lightly

[Justin Ruggles]

You moan when there are no checks, then you moan when you get check and break the rules.

Justin

[Sarah Sarill]

Hi everyone,

I think these licences (and the checks) are a good thing for our industry.

My attitude is, if they are in situ then conform or be fined !!! Mind you that my philosophy is most things as I am a law abiding citizen and sometimes to the extreem - but hey ho !!!.

There is another thread on this forum discussing the wole issue of these liceences or ID cards so tap into it and give your opinions on introducing them to the rest of the country too.

Kind regards,

Sarah

[Londoner]

I agree with that

[George-Reid]

Its easy to say conform and work within the law but when you have paid the money and carried the licence around for ten years and paid the money for god knows how many employess for each and every one of them to work in all council areas you work in and in all that time have never been asked about it once you just might forget to wear it now and again.
The system does not work.
Cheers
george

[Newwfpgatherer]

Its easy to say conform and work within the law but when you have paid the money and carried the licence around for ten years and paid the money for god knows how many employess for each and every one of them to work in all council areas you work in and in all that time have never been asked about it once you just might forget to wear it now and again.
The system does not work.
Cheers
george

Nothing like hearing from the voice of experience.

Thank you George

Pj

[Sarah Sarill]

Hello George,

You say the system does not work but surely that statement is not because you may get caught if you forgot to carry your license.

There is quite a split in opinions down south and it would be helpful if you could elaborate on why it does not work - some specifics would be helpfull too !!

Ps:  I notice you are a wheelie bin cleaning company so are you saying that one licence covers all cleaning trades or have you got a seperate licence for w/c.  Are your comments directed at your wheelie bin experience?

Regards,

Sarah

We too have awheelie bin cleaning company and w/c business so this info would be particularly beneficial to us.

[offclean.co.uk]

This is really stupid and I think that in the long run common sense with prevail here  (I Hope!).

What will happen next will be that it will go to the Procurator Fiscals office (Just to waste their time next!). They, and only they, will decide if any prosection will take place. I 'suspect' (pardon the pun, sigh) that he/she will then just either throw it out or issue a caution. I really can't see this making it to the courts, for one thing it is going to be egg on their faces if it does because the press WILL pick up on it then whether they like it or not!

I wish you luck.

kind regards,

Arthur

[George-Reid]

Sarah
You require a street traders licence to collect money at the door my licence could be used for any purpose. Some areas in scotland limit the numbers of licence per trade so then the licence  would be more specific. You need a licence for each council area.

I know of as many window cleaners and wheelie bin cleaners working with as without licence.

I say it does not work in Scotland because in large parts of the country it is not inforced. Its like waste disposal it is ilegel to spill the water used from cleaning a wheelie bin onto the street because in could go down storm drain the fine for this is 20K per day, thats uk wide I know of dozens of people breaking this law every day, because their is no one to police it.

Cheers
George