[luther1]

Its obviously unlikely,but to anyone that thinks its ok,if they lost their round to someone using this approach, would they take it on the chin?No they wouldn't.Any proper old school window cleaner wouldn't do it. When someone puts a post up asking for advice on a canvassing pitch,why doesn't anyone tell them to undercut,then they will have a round in no time.

[mikecam]

If you live within a 30 mile radius of Boston then there is a good chance you are experiencing undercutting right now.
I posted on here yesterday regarding this but my post was removed and the thread was locked so I assume the company involved may have something to do with this forum?
What is the general feeling towards undercutting?
This company is going around both business and domestic saying “do you want a window cleaner?” If they are told by someone that they already have a cleaner they say “how much are you being charged? Whatever it is we will beat it”
In my book this is wrong. Especially as this company promotes good working practices nationally.

YES undercutting is acceptable (to me). I'll charge whatever i feel like as long as i can make a profit. I don't see any contradiction between 'competitive pricing' and promoting good working practice. Infact i'll go so far as to say that the only thing that stops many undercutting is the fear of retaliation/retribution for doing so.
 WHat you are asking in laymans terms is...is it ok for someone to work for a price cheaper than me? And the only person qualified to give that answer is the guy with the purse strings. You're obviously disgruntled as it might cost you work. What this means ultimatley to you is that have to up your game to compete, you don't sound like you want to. Tough, live with it.

I can see your point and understand, however if you live in an area with two or three people with your attitude prices just get lower and lower until everyone is working for the same money as 20 years ago.
where is the good in that?

Thats not my attitude Neil, thats just a factual look at the situation. I charge more than my competition on residential work.
Lets give you a scenario, there are a few local business's to me that use a small commercial cleaning company, pubs, shops etc. They're on my doorstep. They run a few new vans with uniformed, trained staff. I can guarantee i could go and canvass their work at a cheaper price, whether i get it is another matter. ow if the margins in their jobs can pay for staff, new vans, training, etc and still turn the boss a profit then i'm certain that me as a one man band can do it more 'cost effectivley'. And i can still provide them with a risk assesment,invoice and accept payment by cheque? Now assuming i wanted the work would it be wrong of me to go try and get it?

[NBwcs]

"WHat you are asking in laymans terms is...is it ok for someone to work for a price cheaper than me?"

He wasnt asking that at all, we all have different prices, thats not the issue is it, the issue is deliberately pinching another persons work by knowingly undercutting them. Theres a reason we have these "unwritten codes" and its not because the the existing windy might be bigger than you. Its low skilled work, if we all stoop to this companys approach and start a pricing war we'll all be working for peanuts.    

[mikecam]

Any proper old school window cleaner wouldn't do it.

Any proper old school window cleaner will not like/let you clean in the same street as him whether you're dearer or cheaper !!! So for the sakes of discussing business lets leave them out of it !!!!

[Paul Coleman]

It's crystal clear to me who the company is because they advertise on here and are always banging on about the training courses they offer  
Sounds very underhanded to me if this is true.

No wonder they have to charge so much for equipment.

EDIT:  After reading further down the thread, I see that it wasn't the company I was thinking of when I wrote the above.

I would say though that a large part of the course I attended was aBOUT h & s AND THAT pushing down the rates in such a manner could encourage people to cut corners in regard to H & S.

[luther1]

I've been window cleaning for over twenty years and the one or two houses that i don't clean in some streets,i could offer to clean them for free for a year or two,because the ten minutes it would take would have no effect on my days takings. But i wouldn't.

[Paul Coleman]

I'm with Tosh on this one.

Price is only one factor. I would be unfazed if someone did this with my customers. I don't want 'price-shopping' customers, I don't need them as I have too many anyway.

Is it unethical? No I don't think so. I change energy companies each summer to get the best price, so I would be a hypocrite to suggest other wise.

However, with anyone that comes to your house, you become a bit fussy with who you want turning up.

I don't have the cheapest accountant, I have one I trust.

I hope you use a comparison/switching site for this in order to get cash back.  I certainly do.

[luther1]

Also,one local cleaner undercut ONE of my houses and i told him that i will clean every single house on his round for £5 and employ someone to do it,obviously at a loss to me,in one of my vans and put him out of business. He never cleaned that house again.

[mikecam]

"WHat you are asking in laymans terms is...is it ok for someone to work for a price cheaper than me?"

He wasnt asking that at all, we all have different prices, thats not the issue is it, the issue is deliberately pinching another persons work by knowingly undercutting them. Theres a reason we have these "unwritten codes" and its not because the the existing windy might be bigger than you. Its low skilled work, if we all stoop to Clean safes approach and start a pricing war we'll all be working for peanuts.    

Its all a play on words. You wanna call it 'deliberatley pinching work', i'll call it targetting customers where i could offer 'cost effective' benefits or if i wanna undercut larger companies i could call it offering "local business cost efficiency" or any old bollox !!!. The actual issue is not what me or you say/said, the issue is he doesn't want to lose any work. He's playing the ethical card now, there is no ethics in business.
 

[mci services]

ach what a load of rubbish, if someone wants to undercut so what, it is up to them they run there business how they see fit, if they are successful fair play if not tough sh%t

nothing you can do except adapt and overcome

and I agree with mikecam on his honest opinion

[luther1]

ach what a load of rubbish, if someone wants to undercut so what, it is up to them they run there business how they see fit, if they are successful fair play if not tough sh%t

nothing you can do except adapt and overcome

and I agree with mikecam on his honest opinion
[/quote

I agree. Its just whether that approach gets tolerated or not

[mci services]

Also,one local cleaner undercut ONE of my houses and i told him that i will clean every single house on his round for £5 and employ someone to do it,obviously at a loss to me,in one of my vans and put him out of business. He never cleaned that house again.

missed that one, I know a company that did exactly that, they sacked an employee who then canvassed a big part of the round at lower prices, so they re canvassed at even lower prices for six months then when he went out of business they stuck the prices back up as I said over come and adapt

although they are in the position of having thirty lads employed where most of as aren't

[Danny Guest]

Thats the reality of business and life in general.
The world is full of tough, ruthless individuals who will kill you to get ahead.
Mike is right if you cant play hard ball you will fail. To win you need to be tenacious and ruthless yourself and if you upset someone then tough, stand your ground. Whatever happens will happen.

Welcome to the world of business

Danny

[Tom White]

Thats the reality of business and life in general.
The world is full of tough, ruthless individuals who will kill you to get ahead.

That's not been my experience.  I find most people to be at least neutral on the 'tough and ruthless' scale, but mostly kind and considerate.

You always get the odd bell-end, but I wouldn't say this is a general rule.

Just look at this forum; it's mostly full of people willing to help their fellow window cleaners for nothing more than a 'thanks, mate'.

[thermoclean]

No never

[windiewasher]

Willis? Impact 45 there from Boston

If you live within a 30 mile radius of Boston then there is a good chance you are experiencing undercutting right now.
I posted on here yesterday regarding this but my post was removed and the thread was locked so I assume the company involved may have something to do with this forum?
What is the general feeling towards undercutting?
This company is going around both business and domestic saying “do you want a window cleaner?” If they are told by someone that they already have a cleaner they say “how much are you being charged? Whatever it is we will beat it”
In my book this is wrong. Especially as this company promotes good working practices nationally.

[Pope vader]

this is slightly off topic, but what would you do

i got a phone call the other week, asking me to quote to hotels, they had a wc who had put up there prices and they wernt happy with the new price so phoned me up told me story and told me what they use to pay, saying if i beat it i can have the two hotels,  i still make 35 ph on the jobs,  is it wrong of me to go on cheaper know what the prices where, when a job is there for the taking

[mlscontractcleaner]

No, no, no; take the jobs and good luck to you. If the hotels want to offer you the work because they don't like the fella's new prices tough on him and well done you.

However, I'd expect to loose them again if ever someone came in at a lower price.

[groundhog]

It's all the fault of forums like this, making it so easy and attractive for newbies to set up in business... plenty of windows to go around everyone said... NOT ANY MORE THERE ISN'T!!!! There are less customers willing to pay to have their windows cleaned and loads more window cleaners out there looking for customers!!!! 

[Tom White]

I dunno, Groundy, I've got a fair bit of new work these past few months; maybe more than in some other years?