[NBwcs]

Theres been a very marked change in attitude towards undercutting over the last eight years since ive been cleaning. If this thread had been started then, there would have been total solidarity against the actions of this firm. Its a guage of todays market with wfp being largely to blame. ( im wfp btw)Its allowed more work to done in less time and as Grounhog says, theres no longer plenty of glass to go round. Its opened up oppertunities for this type of underhand work practice,and unfortunetly, i can only see it getting more frequent. It doesnt take a brain surgeon to realise that this type of selfish marketing has a very negative impact on our industry. Its only a matter of time before the next chinless wonder sets up and undercuts the undercutters etc. It drives prices down, the only ultimate winners are the general public. 

[Pope vader]

as far as i am concerened window cleaning is the latest bangwagon for people trying to make a quick buck,  there will be something else in a few years

[L.J.Thorpe]

my only thoughts are if they are undercutting in spalding do not upset Paddy!!!!

[scud]

my only thoughts are if they are undercutting in spalding do not upset Paddy!!!!

  Too late to give them that advice!   

[Tom White]

my only thoughts are if they are undercutting in spalding do not upset Paddy!!!!

  Too late to give them that advice!   

Is Paddy Irish?  Is Paddy a bit mental too?  Should anyone be worried?

[Steve Sed]

If your prices are fair and you offer a professional, but still "personal" service and do a good job, why worry? There will always be the odd customer that will move for a cheaper price, but I actually think that most of my customers will stay loyal.

As an aside, I was asked to quote on two houses the week before last that already had wcs. On both I quoted more but still got the jobs. One was because the existing one got on her nerves and the other left streaks all the time.

Don't panic Mr Mainwaring!!

[H S and Son]

I had a text from someone about 3 weeks ago telling me Id need effing crutches to get about if I carried on poaching this guys work. Trouble was the idiot that he is wasn't prepared to answer the phone when I called him. If he'd told me where he meant Id been poaching his work from I might have been able to do something about it  

I did (and still do) think it might have been someone on here, I have my suspicions, but the rozzers can trace a PAYG phone as well as a contracted one. It takes a bit of time but it can be done. Where the phone was bought, where credit was topped up from and masts/aerials that calls and texts travel through. So someone will get their comeuppance. its a shame they didnt have the courage to answer the phone to me, I suspect they have their reasons. Time will tell.

Is undercuting okay? Its an open market isn't it?

Ive had my fair share of work poached off me over the years, I am definately more expensive than most round here and thus leave myself open to be undercut; its life, it happens, I'll survive  

[luther1]

It costs thousands to trace mobile phone calls and the police will not entertain it over a threatening phone call. It has to be a serious crime,unless you want to fund it yourself

[H S and Son]

Thats not what the police have told me. They also viewed the messages as serious. I was quite surprised with their reaction. It was heartening to say the least.

It doesnt cost thousands, they contact the mobile phone company who supply them with the data.

[Danny Guest]

Thats the reality of business and life in general.
The world is full of tough, ruthless individuals who will kill you to get ahead.

That's not been my experience.  I find most people to be at least neutral on the 'tough and ruthless' scale, but mostly kind and considerate.

You always get the odd bell-end, but I wouldn't say this is a general rule.

Just look at this forum; it's mostly full of people willing to help their fellow window cleaners for nothing more than a 'thanks, mate'.

Tosh
Unfortunatley i have come across some tough operators. This is the way i see them and this is the way i view life. Everyone is out for themselves. The bigger the business the more of them you meet.
You can either fight or fold and i choose to fight them all the way.  

Danny

[Tom White]

Everyone is out for themselves.

Not true, Danny.  I've just had a quick look at your backposts, and you're a good guy who helps and encourages others; you definitely don't seem to be out purely for yourself, otherwise you wouldn't post those helpful posts.

In my area, we're friendly, if not helpful.  My van was found for me by a local windy, I was given a tank for my van for free; I recently gave an A Frame I no longer needed away, I've given work away and received it too.

A guy on this site - whom I've never met - sent me a pole for free (fanks Matt); he didn't even want postage; and probably lots of other stuff.

I don't think the world is a big scary place, but I do agree there's the odd bell end.

[H S and Son]

Ive got a bell-end 

[G Griffin]

I`ve got an odd bell end  .

It all depends on how what you mean by undercutting and what you mean by acceptable.

[Danny Guest]

Tosh I understand where your coming from but what im trying to convey is that the world isnt a nice and happy place that some people think it is.
Its true i do like to help others but i wont give them a false perspective on business practices.
There are many window cleaners on this site who help each other out for nothing at all. They are great people with big hearts. What i see here is that they arent in direct competition with each other so see each other as friends rather then competition that could hurt their business. In your case you have said you are on good terms with other window cleaners in your area so have a mutual respect between each other i presume.

What would happen if a new cleaner turned up in your area trying to bully you, steal your customers, eroding your business, using underhand tactics and affecting your income? How would you deal with that individual? Would it be a case of its a free market they can do what they like..I have my prices and they have theres...i can replace these customers elsewhere...?

There will be members on the forum who have an understanding between them and then there is those who would harm the other persons business if they thought it was financially worth it.

I know many accomplished businessmen. Some are millionaires some will be one day and they have all got great stories from their experiences. Some have had employees leave setting up competition in the same area whilst stealing all their contacts, client lists and knowing pricing and put the company out of business before sweeping up the employees.

Danny

[g.brookes]

One of the things that appeals to me about window cleaning (albeit through slightly rose tinted glasses) is the gentlemanly attitude of most.  Most window cleaners i've met are very friendly, and you help each other out.  Most see it as very frowned upon to try and take others work.  When they go on holiday, i help out with their jobs and vice versa.  I think if i went to work every day under threat of people competing for my jobs its be incredibly stressful.  Most of us work alone and rely of our fellow window cleaners for camaraderie and help where people out of the business couldn't.
I know that business by its very nature is competitive, but as soon as under cutting becomes commonplace, there'll be a lot more aggression and fear toward other window cleaners and a lot less help and aid.  In a job where you can earn upto 40k doing a very low skilled job on your own,  there is not much call for going round charging 50p less than someone else.

[Danny Guest]

With mutual respect its all about trust. Trust is the key.
I can count one one hand the people i trust apart from my family and a window cleaner isnt one of them.

Im not saying that window cleaners are disloyal or untrustworthy its just that i wont trust a stranger with my livelyhood.
I dont trust too many people and i am very cautious but it works for me.

Most wc are great people but i have met a few nasty lowlifes who have tried to intimidate me and push me out of the area. It hasnt worked with me but has with others. Im having a great time taking them on and im taking a lot of business from them even though i am dearer in pricing. The are also old school wc who think the patches still exist. They have pushed a number of wcs away because they work in a groups of 4. The dont bother me anymore

The next generation wcs may be more thoughtful and courteous

Im expanding and im coming across wcs who just dont want me in the area even though im more expensive and dont pose any threat to them. It might just be my area 

Danny

[boshravie]

Tosh I understand where your coming from but what im trying to convey is that the world isnt a nice and happy place that some people think it is.
Its true i do like to help others but i wont give them a false perspective on business practices.
There are many window cleaners on this site who help each other out for nothing at all. They are great people with big hearts. What i see hear is that they arent in direct competition with each other so see each other as friends rather then competition that could hurt their business. In your case you have said you are on good terms with other window cleaners in your area so have a mutual respect between each other i presume.

What would happen if a new cleaner turned up in your area trying to bully you, steal your customers, eroding your business, using underhand tactics and affecting your income? How would you deal with that individual? Would it be a case of its a free market they can do what they like..I have my prices and they have theres...i can replace these customers elsewhere...?

There will be members on the forum who have an understanding between them and then there is those who would harm the other persons business if they thought it was financially worth it.

I know many accomplished businessmen. Some are millionaires some will be one day and they have all got great stories from their experiences. Some have had employees leave setting up competition in the same area whilst stealing all their contacts, client lists and knowing pricing and put the company out of business before sweeping up the employees.

Danny

Hi danny
I read your comments, and all I have to say is there is no away any one can do wrong and get a away with it, GOD will always pay back, weather you do good or  bad.

( THE DEAD SEA IS DEAD ONLY BECAUSE IT TAKES IN WATER AND DOESN’T GIVE ANY OUT. ITS CONSTIPATED AND CONGESTED. ONE OF LIFES GREAT LAW IS THE LAW OF CIRCULATION. KEEP CIRCULATE GOOD, AND GOOD WILL KEEP CIRCULATING YOU). 

[L.J.Thorpe]

my only thoughts are if they are undercutting in spalding do not upset Paddy!!!!

  Too late to give them that advice!   

Is Paddy Irish?  Is Paddy a bit mental too?  Should anyone be worried?

no need for you to worry mate you live miles away!!!! these safe clean or clean safe or impact or whoever ....... well ...who can tell

[sf]

If the company is big enough it doesnt really matter how much they undercut you by.you will find the cleaener actually doing the work is on minimum wage or just above.Low profit margins high turnover,the same way tesco and asda work.I actually worked for a company for 3 weeks that operates in this manner,managing director drives a £60,000, house big house etc. wouldnt work for sole traders like most of us on here.Totally unethical but unfortunatley it does work.

[andyjm1]

managing director drives a £60,000, house

Bet he has trouble parking.