[r4g1t]

i bought some work that had been cleaned with a pole system,although the majority of customers never complained to the polee they have had nothing but praise for my new system THE LADDER, which in my mind you can leave a much better finish and is a lot faster (for a good ladderman of course). so to all you new kids on the block DON'T USE IT   

[marc al]

 Is anyone going to rise to the bait??

[Ian_Giles]

Oooh, a thread that puts the cat amonst the pidgeons

So to start things off I will state that in general WFP is considerably faster than using a ladder, even on a standard 3 bed semi you'll be hard pressed to do it quicker with a ladder.
Make this a georgian house or one with all leaded windows and the traditional window cleaner will be left stranded, and by a big margin too.

Get onto the newer houses that tend to be 3 storey, and often have the UPVC windows with a bar on the outside of the glass and yet again, trad is left in the shade.
These windows are such a pain with trad, as you squeegee, the water runs between the bars and will continue to dribble even after you have fiddled around detailing them (which of course takes more time in itself)

Standard of work? Well this comes down to the individual doesn't it, it's very easy to do an appalling job with WFP, but if you like to maintain high standards then you will still do so.
A big bonus is that, and in particular with UPVC windows, you can wash all of the frames without any loss of time.

I did a new account yesterday, windows hadn't been cleaned for many months, 16 UPVC windows on the house itself, 2 over a conseratory, 1 over a greenhouse and 2 others that couldn't be done off a ladder.
Large conservatory, 8 large windows on 2 sides (side 3 was against a hedge)
First time clean, including all of the frames (filthy too) and all of the frames on the conservatory right up to the gutters.

30 minutes from pulling up to driving away, AND that included a cup of tea and a chat with the customer.

Even if it was possible to clean the 5 windows mentioned above of a ladder, there is no way it could be cleaned (frames included) to the same standard.
You take out the 5 windows inaccessable to a ladder, leave out the frames (but not the sills) and you will still struggle to do a first time clean in 30 minutes.

On repeat cleans, more especially by about the 3rd clean this will take no more than 20 minutes at worst.

The same level of cleaning done trad (and by this I mean a thorough clean of all of the frames) will be about 30 minutes, take out the frame part of the equation and you might get it down to 25 minutes, but I will still have done 5 more windows, 5 minutes faster and frames cleaned into the bargain.

At £14.00 per clean I'm a happy chappie

Another comparison for you; I also did a stand alone bungalow yesterday, £8.00 account=10 minutes-pulling up to pulling away.
Mostly UPVC, 16 windows 3 of which were georgian doors.
All of the frames washed spotlessly clean too.
Last cleaned 5 weeks ago and they still looked like I'd cleaned them only yesterday; mint condition.

There are windows that WFP comes a poor second on, but they are becoming fewer and fewer now.

Regards,

Ian.


P.S.

for others that respond to the thread, make it a reasoned debate please with sensible arguements.
Inane nonsense will be deleted.

[P @ F]

Sorry but  there aint a chance of me going back , i been on wfp for 6 wks , and i aint been near a ladder in 6 wks , only had 1 moan , i binned them , never liked them anyway , and then theres the money aspect , my daily take has doubled .

 Rich  P @ F

 And i get home safe every night , top equipment that wfp.

[ian m]

(i bought some work that had been cleaned with a pole system,although the majority of customers never complained to the polee they have had nothing but praise for my new system THE LADDER, which in my mind you can leave a much better finish and is a lot faster (for a good ladderman of course). so to all you new kids on the block DON'T USE IT ) 

I used to use a ladder to clean windows, then I noticed it was leaving scratches on the glass ..BOOM BOOM!!


Ian



 

[H h20]

It`s not the tool you use it`s  the user,i started using wfp about 4 months ago and at first it`s like any new tool you use you get better and better,iv`e been window cleaning for 17 years now and have seen some very bad jobs done by other window cleaners who just aren`t bothered about their standard of work they are just in it for the money,i can say i use to do an excellent job off a ladder and i am doing a better job with wfp now,so before you actually knock wfp you`ve got to try it yourself if you class yourself as a good or even excellent window cleaner using a ladder then you will do just as good if not better job with wfp,Gaz.

[Moderator David@stives]

r4j1t and ian m

have you both tried wfp ?

you can get bad pole operators ,same as bad squeegie operators.

no different realy ,they both have their positive and negatives.

I would not post on here because of hearsay and one bad pole operator .

I  bet you both will have a pole within 2 years,

Dave

[bumper]

hows about  if you have to climb over 100 garage roofs, you would have to have a big hose or  keep moving your van up and down the streets,thats why i use a ladder.

[Moderator David@stives]

Get a back pack as well

[bumper]

if you get a back back you still need the ladder to get over the garage and down the other side.

[eddie d]

 bumper
 we know ladders have there uses.but over all the pole is better.
 i know.
 after having 6 months off after a fall you wont think ladders are best

[ian m]

Hi David

I use a wfp, I also use a ladder. It depends on  the job. They both have their advantages.


I was just trying to lighten the whole wfp vs ladders debate that seems to raise its ugly head on this forum time and time again and for many members of this forum is becoming a bit tedious. No offence meant


Ian

[Moderator David@stives]

Ian

I was not offended at all , 

Bumper

what do you think the backpack is for have you never seen james bond

Dave

[Moderator David@stives]

usually the same speed but the bigger the job the faster with the pole

Dave

[Davindo Cleana]

I still climb over a couple of garage roofs but all wfp otherwise.
I picked up a job yesterday - the classic 'hard to reach window over sloping roof extension' - the old dear pointed to the upper window and said "My last window cleaner fell through that"  Two doors up she said her neighbour had to rescue another after he "lost his ladder"

I don't care which method is faster just which is safer -

Like others, I don't think there is a problem with wfp, just users maybe not doing things right and using plenty of water on the first cleans

We could be having this same debate about a good window cleaner using ladders taking over from a bad one using ladders

[Sir Squeaky]

usually the same speed but the bigger the job the faster with the pole

Dave

I think that's the point really Dave.

It's only on the big jobs and complex windows it's quicker.

Contrary to what Ian says, I'd do an average 3 bed semi as quick or quicker, then I'd tie the ladders on in less than 10 seconds and be away.

I'd be at the next house and started while a poler is still faffing about with equipment. :

Obviously on big houses bunched together I'd be slower though...

Rog.

[matt]

WFP full time here for 11 months

its not about the money, its about BEING STOOD ON THE GROUND 8 hours a day

[Moderator David@stives]

WFP full time here for 11 months

its not about the money, its about BEING STOOD ON THE GROUND 8 hours a day

yes safer and easier it doesnt matter if i am slower now and again.and time does not drag as much ,what other reasons do you need

[pjulk]

so how quick can one of you WFP users take to do a typical 3 bed house?
mind you a 3 bed house around here usually as 6 windows and two doors

15 Minutes with WFP but also about 15 Minutes with ladders

Quite a few jobs on the smaller properties will be about the same time WFP or traditional.
I even have some that i can do faster traditional than i can WFP as they are small.

WFP comes into it's own though when you get 4 bed+ houses and leaded and geogian.

99% of my work i do with WFP quite a few i will do the downstairs by hand just to save some water.

I would not go back to ladders but ladders still have there place and always will but WFP is a lot safer and it's been proven on newsnight there's no differance in the end result each as good as each other.

Paul

[rosskesava]

its not about the money, its about BEING STOOD ON THE GROUND 8 hours a day

I don't quite get that. I love what I do but I do it for the money.

I think there are quite a few jobs where wfp is slower or cannot be used. Sometimes with some CUI members it's almost a case of wfp is better always everytime and no questions about it and can be used on every job.

For some jobs wfp knocks spots off traditional methods. Stained or coloured leaded glass as well as ordinary leaded glass comes up brilliantly with wfp. Also, as mentioned above windows where ladder access is impossible.

As for ladders, I am so so so so glad not to be going up a 3 extension ladder anymore. That is peace of mind. We still use 2 extension ladders but not nearly to the same extent.

We're still new to wfp and I'm still not concvinced that the end result is better but the frames are definately cleaner and some jobs that took ages now take minutes.

Cheers