[caroleroberts]

Hi, I have been asked to clean a pub kitchen - probs with environmental health due to build up of grease. Haven't done this before - any tips on what to quote and what I will need?

[jaespray]

  if you have not done one before     why start now ?    it will be rrrank
regards john

[caroleroberts]

Thanks John, I'm trying to take on as much work as possible and have now already agreed to do it. Have you done many kitchen cleans and do you have any tips that may help?

[jaespray]

hi carole    firstly lets get this right     it is not the environmental health dept fault    it is the PUB managements fault   they all want sacking   now for you  you might be the best   but even you cannot perform miracles  do not under price the job     you will smell it on yourself for at least 3days   and any equipment you use you may never get the smell out off    so you wont be able to use it on any good jobs    very good luck   let us know how easy it was when you finnish
regards john

[Griffus]

I would say that a good quality steam cleaner, ideally with built in vac is essential for this. It will be minging beyond your worst expectations and not the best type of kitchen to make your first job.

Might be worth considering subbing out to an experienced operator, especially as environmental health are involved and the chance of a recall for is high.

[Robert Parry]

Hi Carole,

The deep cleaning of a commercial kitchen is not a job for the faint hearted or indeed the inexperienced!

You say you have already agreed to take this on, so we must make the best of a bad job.

Firstly, because of the involvement of the EHO, you must be able to supply your client with the following:-

1. Certificate of insurance (Public/Employers liability, if applicable) You should also make sure that any insurance you hold covers you for this type of wotk.
2. COSSH Sheets for any chemicals that you intend to use, you should also ensure that all chemicals are food safe.
3. Risk Assessments for each aspect of the job.
4. Although, not yet a legal requirement, you should also supply your client with a detailed method statement.

You should also realise that any cloths or wipes that you use on this job will as John has stated need to be thrown away, you will never be able to get them clean again, you will also use far far more than you first think! So your pricing needs to take this into account.

John is also correct in stating that the smell is pretty obnoxius, so getting an employee to work in hot, smelly conditions requires a good rate of pay, as the work is not at all easy either, unless your staff (if any) are very good, you could find that they may well refuse to attend the site the following day!

You should be aware, that all fittings will have to be moved in order to clean behind them, as well as to gain acces to the backs and sides of cookers, fridges etc.

Every inch, from the ceiling, walls, lights, pipes, appliancies, cupboards, switches, plugs, windows, ledges, floors etc will need to be cleaned.

Best way to clean is top down, using a commercial steam cleaner as the first method of attack, these are not cheap to buy, so see if you can hire one locally, again your pricing should take this into account! Failing that, food safe chemicals and lots and lots of hot water and hard graft!

Fridges, ovens, microwaves, grills will need cleaning inside and out, as will all hoses, pipes and electrical leads etc, ensure that these are all unplugged and switched off before cleaning.

You dont say anything about the size, fit out or the contents of this kitchen, so hard to say what sort of price you should have charged, but for even a small kitchen you should be talking at least a £1000.00, and sometimes much more, especially if you have to clean ducts, which again would probably need special equipment.

You must also remember, that before the kitchen will be allowed to re-open, EHO will need to visit to run some more tests, the officer will not just look to see if the kitchen is clean, he/she will aslo very likely take swab tests as well, if the kitchen fails these tests, they will not be allowed to re-open, and your client will expect you to come and clean the kitchen again so that it can pass these tests, and you can bet your life that the client will refuse point blank to pay you any extra for this work, and may well decide to sue for loss of earnings whilst the kitchen remains closed!

AS john said, it would be good to have feed back from you on how this job went, after all you requested help and advice, and your experience of completing this work could only help others.

Regards,

Rob

[jaespray]

easy way to tell if a pub kitchen is bad



if the toilet stinks the kitchen is 10 times worse
regards john

[caroleroberts]

Thanks all for your comments. Robert - I have the necessary insurance and have done risk assessments and method statements. The kitchen is small and quite old and because of the issues with environmental health they have put new flooring down and had the walls redone in the main kitchen  area. They are also replacing the extractors. This should cut it down slightly! I will let you know how it went - and if I'd ever do another one!!

[Rick Ward]

I disagree that environmental health will need to come back to the job, prior to re-opening, as more often than anything it will be on an improvement notice which allows for time scale. There are many more issues than cleanliness when dealing with EH so providing the client accepts the clean, then the contract should be complete. Take photos before and after of course. Any concerns and I would phone the EH - I have dealt with them many times and always found them incredibly helpful, they have a duty to help/ advise.

[Katy Radcliffe]

easy way to tell if a pub kitchen is bad



if the toilet stinks the kitchen is 10 times worse
regards john

I can vouch for this. I cleaned the lounge and the toilets of a pub yesterday and, while I didn't clean the kitchen, I did use it to fill and empty my mop buckets. Blech.

[BDCS]

I spend quite a lot of time in commercial kitchens, I would never eat a kebab and there is only two 2 chinese's where i would buy food. I had to do a drain in a very popular Italian in Canterbury who continued service with 2 inches of sewage on the floor - they all had crocks on with their trousers rolled up . For a kitchen clean i would use the steamer and buy a bundle of cotton rags so you can bin them when soiled. I have never seen a EO with an ATP meter around here. I agree that good advice can be gained from EO's and also the EA but some are merchant bankers. Wear disposable overalls

[caroleroberts]

OK said I’d report back! – I cleaned the kitchen last night. Took longer than I thought but at least I was prepared for the mess after your comments. It took six of us 6 hours – so much grease!! Just wondered  though, for those of you who do this regularly – how much do you charge? I know one comment was £1000, but I quoted £525 which the landlords mum who arranged it thought was reasonable. Going back for the cheque today the landlord  said he was happy with the work but thought I had priced it too high and said he knows another pub that has the kitchen cleaned monthly  using steam cleaners and dip tanks, dismantling all the equipment for £120. Is this possible or realistic?

[jaespray]

hi carole   congratulations on your little job     by my maths that works out to about £14.60 per hour  hope you and your staff are content for that sort of money for totaly out of hours work
remember this   the kitchen could be in exactly in the same state as you found it in   cos those same kitchen staff will not give a toss    they know some other "mug"will clean it up
take no notice of what the bosses said about the prices the other people charge   if that was fact you would not of got the job   (in my opinion)
regards john

[BDCS]

I think the landlords mum is talking out of her slop trays - if you could get a kitchen stripped, cleaned and reassembled for £120 why did the EHO plonk an order in her lap because her kitchen was a health hazard. If the work is that easy why did the lazy cow not roll her sleeves up and do it herself. Its been good experience, an insight on whats involved and an idea on what level to pitch your pricing

[jaespray]

hi carole     "most" but by no means "all"  pub trade kitchen staff are pi$$eds junkies or on the run from some thing/body and live out of a suitcase  they do not care about any one or any thing  except the next fix or payday   and this is only my opinion   ps you might be able to tell i rarely eat at these places  and then only deep fryed stuff    most buggs are then killed
regards john

[Robert Parry]

Hi Carole,

Happy to hear that it went well!

Regarding pricing, just something to think about!

I dont know anything about your set up, but you did say it took 6 of you, again I assume that you are counting yourself  If this is the case, you actually need a written Health & Safety Policy, because you have 5 or more employee's, this actaully costs money!

Again you mentioned that your emp/public liability insurance covered you for this type of work, again this costs money.

I dont know, as you dont mention, what rate you paid your cleaners, but once again, this has to be taken into account.

You dont mention which cleaning method you used, but cloths, chemicals, scourers, steam machine etc, all cost money.

Advertising your services, PAYE, tax, VAT if applicable, fuel for van or car, admin etc, again, yes you guessed it all cost money!

Add up all your costs, and see if you actually made a profit on this job!

As for the oher firm charging £120 per month for a steam clean, if the pub has it done every month, a small kitchen really shouldnt take much more than a couple of hours to complete, my guess is they probably tried that firm first, and fainted at the price!

Regards,

Rob

[caroleroberts]

Hi,

I did make a small profit but probably not enough to want to do it again for that price! I used chemicals, cloths and a small steam cleaner –  think that’s possibly why it took so long – the grease had clearly built up over a long time. I think it would be better to use a better steam cleaner but  don’t know if its worth investing or just trying to sub to specialist kitchen cleaners in future.
How do most of you work  - do you take on all kinds of work or specialise in certain areas and have agreements with other companies for the specialist stuff?  At the moment I mostly do offices, end of tenancy and builders cleans. I sub carpet cleaning and we do some window cleaning – my daughter is about to try and build this side further.
To answer your questions, Rob – I started this business 18months ago and am trying to build it up at the moment - I have got all the H& S in place – policy, risk assessments etc., I have pubic and employers liability insurance and pay my employees through the PAYE system and am vat registered (the £525 did not include vat).  Customers don’t take in the costs of this though but want the benefits – do you find this also?

Regards

Carole

[Robert Parry]

Hi Carole,

Tell me about it!

Lots of clients/prospects moan about cleaning standards, reliability and a thousand and one other things, but when you tell them the true costs involved, they nearly always are shocked!

However glad you realised a small profit, what you have to remember is one off jobs are the cream, daily or weekly contracts are your bed and butter, one off jobs should always carry a price premium, the harder or more specialist the job, the bigger profit should be made.

Best of luck!

Rob

[ryan mca]

Hi Carole

£120 would get you cooker cleaned not a kitchen well done for having
a go and you will be better prepared next time