[Sir Squeaky]

Tell me about it, leasing is only worth it just , if you are vat reg

Otherwise get a 3 year old van cash, or on finance

I was looking at new vans as they look nice and etc , but the costs are just way too much unless you have the cash to go haggle, otherwise your paying 18 k for a van that when your finished paying is worth about 6k

Waste of money

Correct.

I'm not in any problem with it, just annoyed about being conned.

I'll have the 6k bank loan paid in two years, then I can trade it in for a 3 year old finance one.
I'll have to give 15% to the b*stards, but it's still a good bit towards the next one.

[Sean Dyer]

After all the money you have put into that one mate, id be keeping it 

[Sir Squeaky]

After all the money you have put into that one mate, id be keeping it  

Why? What difference does it make?
Run it into the ground and have no deposit? That would be a bit stupid, and costly when it starts to get old too...

[niceandclean]

Who is the finance company you are with? I have a lease at the moment, and the last one i had it had a balloon payment at the end. Paid the balloon figure, plus think it was £85 admin charge, van was mine.
Have you checked your original paperwork?  

[Steve CM]

mine wernt a new van. it was 3 years old when i got it. I then got it on a lease purchase deal where by at the end of the deal i can buy the van for 75 quid.

it only cost me 8k and my payments were 231 a month with a 10% deposit upfront

which firm offers that ?

it was Barclays asset finance. bloody good deal really. my new van isn't as good but still on a lease deal. Barclays asset finance don't lend to anyone who turn over less than 2 million now. thats me out then!

[rz]

will they own 15% of the van for as long as you own it??

and is it 15% of todays value or 15% of the value in 3 years time?

and who decides the value??

[scud]

  Squeaky, I will buy the van off you tommorow.

  I'll give you £100 for it as the gearbox is buggered

  You can then pay the finance company their 15%  

  I'll sell it back to you when the documents come back to me, lets agree a price for it now, say £120?

  Everyone's a winner - well everyone that counts!!

[Sir Squeaky]

Who is the finance company you are with? I have a lease at the moment, and the last one i had it had a balloon payment at the end. Paid the balloon figure, plus think it was £85 admin charge, van was mine.
Have you checked your original paperwork?  

It's on paper as CVF finance, but when I ring them they answer the phone as BNP  

Can't find paperwork, ex missus was crap, but they're sending me a copy.
No doubt it'll say what she said, or she wouldn't be sending it.

[Sir Squeaky]

will they own 15% of the van for as long as you own it??

and is it 15% of todays value or 15% of the value in 3 years time?

and who decides the value??

15% as long as I own it. No-one decides value, just "at fair price" it says.
Might be able to get a garage to lie about it...

Would be quite funny to flog it for scrap for £50, and make a point of sending them £7.50.

[rz]

will they own 15% of the van for as long as you own it??

and is it 15% of todays value or 15% of the value in 3 years time?

and who decides the value??

15% as long as I own it. No-one decides value, just "at fair price" it says.
Might be able to get a garage to lie about it...

Would be quite funny to flog it for scrap for £50, and make a point of sending them £7.50.

give it a few months and sort out an invoice for a damaged van, give um 15% of £1500,

[Londoner]

Leasing any vehicle is seriously bad news  IMO. Whenever we get questions on here about buy or lease I always say buy new. Leasing companies are only out to make money for themselves. I don't know if they are still doing it but you could buy a new transit for £9,999 plus vat a few months back

I am paying less to buy my van than I would to lease it (£35 pw I pay ) and in a years time its mine. lease deals always contain hidden costs.

[AuRavelling79]

Like I said - read the small print. All sellers - esp. dealers and lease merchants smile like cheshire cats when you're going in and frown like quasimodo looking for a date on your way out.

I leased mine new in Nov 2006 and am "keeping it".

If I had had cash it would have cost me about 8.5K, lease-purchase about 10K, loan about 9.5K and by leasing it has cost me 11K (all Vat included). (Balloon was £2500 last Nov.)

For me I was in a rush; my car had been written off for which I received £500! I needed to work, had little capital but it would have cleaned me out and I have a business, house and family to maintain financially.

It worked - along with advice from this site, wfp and shaping up the £175 a month was easily paid for out of extra earnings and in the year before the balloon was due I put extra away for it. Still had to pull a grand of savings across tho'.

Now my secondary rental is £175 per year. It's small beer to keep the van and if I sell I have to give 2.5% or nothing if I scrap.

Now it's on 25Kmiles and reliable - why get rid? I'll just keep it til it costs me more money than it's worth and put £100 a month away (Started end January) in a fund for another van. I hope to keep this one at least two more years and possibly another four or five - than if all goes to plan I'll have £100 a month x 24 or 48 or 60 or what ever. Then depending on tax rules I'll prolly buy with a deposit and bank loan.

With leasing - every penny is claimable against tax and if I sell (ok value now will be what? 3 - 4K? Perhaps 1K when I do sell) no tax disadvantage.

What will I do next time? If still not Vat reg I will prolly buy brand new (with a wedge of £££s in my hand) and run it for ten years.

HINDSIGHT? I would not lease - but I would buy new with finance if necessary - but I wasn't conned because I knew what I was doing and went into it with my eyes open and only myself to take responsibility for it - not my wife, not the leasing co, not Vansdirect, not satan, not Tosh nor Arthur Daley ...
...
Now family car etc - I never pay more than 2K and never will until I'm an old(er) fart and me and Mrs. Gold are zimmering about with only one vehicle to rely on.  

[dazmond]

i usually dont buy any vehicle unless its 10 or more years old!!

usually spend a few hundred on repairs every year to keep it on the road.

my old mondeo cost me £700 and i had it for 5 years with hardly any repairs needing doing in that time!

i had a sierra that cost me £800 years ago that lasted 6 and a half years!


im saving for a newer van though.think ill get one thats about 5 years old next!

can pick em up for around 4 grand(mid range van)

[Ian101]

I used to sell cars / vans to small - med sized businesses and most common lease was a Residual Value Lease now called Balloon Lease.

Has a payment patten of 3-0-35 or 3-0-47 which translates to

3 monthly payments up front
0 payment gap
35 or 47 monthly payments

then a final payment (residual or balloon same thing)

final payment was acheived by selling / px'ing vehicle and paying it off from proceeeds or u could pay it yourself and pay a peppercorn rental equivalent of about 1 monthly payment per year.

The last bit is VERY VERY important as if you EVER own the vehicle than any tax relief u have ever claimed becomes null and void .... selling to a 3rd party and buying it back may work but wouldnt like to try it with taxman.

Leasing is the normally the most tax efficient way to aquire a van or car as if its purely for business use then tax releif can be claimed at 100%.

but were all different and only person who can say what is best for you is probably your accountant as he SHOULD be up to date with latest tax info.

[Sean Dyer]

When i spoke to vans direct last week you had to be limited to lease?

Didnt think you guys were squeaks, and gold, or was i misinformed?

[AuRavelling79]

When i spoke to vans direct last week you had to be limited to lease?

Didnt think you guys were squeaks, and gold, or was i misinformed?

I have been a director and part owned a limited company (not wc) in the past. But I am simply "self-employed" and was when I leased in Nov 2006.

Like I said - my instinct is not to lease again - but it hasn't been bad for me at all - indeed having the van I have (rather than going 2nd hand at the time) saves me £80 a year in road tax due to the date of registration which is about half my peppercorn rental.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

I used to sell cars / vans to small - med sized businesses and most common lease was a Residual Value Lease now called Balloon Lease.

Has a payment patten of 3-0-35 or 3-0-47 which translates to

3 monthly payments up front
0 payment gap
35 or 47 monthly payments

then a final payment (residual or balloon same thing)

final payment was acheived by selling / px'ing vehicle and paying it off from proceeeds or u could pay it yourself and pay a peppercorn rental equivalent of about 1 monthly payment per year.

The last bit is VERY VERY important as if you EVER own the vehicle than any tax relief u have ever claimed becomes null and void .... selling to a 3rd party and buying it back may work but wouldnt like to try it with taxman.

Leasing is the normally the most tax efficient way to aquire a van or car as if its purely for business use then tax releif can be claimed at 100%.but were all different and only person who can say what is best for you is probably your accountant as he SHOULD be up to date with latest tax info.

I don't get that. A purchased van is also 100% tax relief & BOTH would only be so if purely used 100% for the business in which tax relief is claimed.

The fact a leased van might cost more & so more tax relief might be applicable isn't a worthy case.

[AuRavelling79]

Yebbut - when you sell a van then that is a plus to the business and so goes as income in the year you sell it.

[Spruce]

The trouble is that there are a whole lot of sales people out the masquerading as commercial sales advisors selling vans who have no idea what financial sales package they are actually selling. They are also heavily influenced by their sales managers who only know retail business and have very little financial experience when it comes to business to business requirements. Many had no clue what on or off balance sheet actually means.  They are also profit driven, and so will tend to sell the product that makes them the most commission.
I came across many miss sold financial packages when I was in Commercial van sales.

I would never go so far as saying that you will never lease a van again. As and when the time comes again to buy a new van, I would get quotes and then thoroughly research the implications of each – usually an accountant is a good person to talk to.  You need to find out who the leasing company is, as many have their own names for different packages.

They will try to get you to sign an agreement there and then, but if they put pressure on you to do that, get up and walk out. Yes, the deal is just for today B******t, don't budge as you will find the same deal elsewhere, probably better if they are putting pressure to sign on the dotted line immediately.

I worked for Citroen for many years, and they have a detailed resume of each of their financial packages on their website www.citroen.co.uk under the fleet and Business tab.

Spruce

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Yebbut - when you sell a van then that is a plus to the business and so goes as income in the year you sell it.

Yebbut, you then buy another one at the same time.