[Nathanael Jones]

Interestingly the "Practicable" part of the regulations will allow for financial constraints. If you're 20 years in the business & doing well for yourself though, the cost of wfp is not going to cut it as an excuse.
There are other situations where wfp is not practicable,.. in coastal areas the salt from the sea can at times make the results from wfp fairly dire even for experienced users.

[Smudger]

No, I use both methods. Just an off the cuff remark...

I have no problems with people who use wfp exclusively, but not with comments like ladders are banned... :

Ian i agree - some sweeping statements just p you off big time

Darran

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

horses for courses spring to mind
im just as much at home tradding
or wfp ing each as their place
in my vast array of tools
though im a master of both dont make me a jedi 

[birdymiller]

spend loads  i dont think a grand is loads

Wfp costs alot more to use as opposed to trad overheads.

[birdymiller]

Is that because your trad ? 

wfp is not expensive and trying to justify an argument on those grounds is nieve at best.

Gold has already made the perfect statement on the subject.

if you want to trad then by all means clean windows that way, but the world and technology move on...

Darran

Yes im trad, used wfp for 2 years then got rid. You may think spending on wfp is worth it i dont. was golds argument the one about decking, if so then if the bloke who did my decking left as much mess as wfp then id rather have the bloke who doesnt use the latest tech. Yes i will carry on trad thankyou very much darran, i just didnt like the way nat made out in his post that for all shiners wfp cleaned windows. In my opinion wfp is not an alternative because of inconsistent results, water waste, mess and overheads.

[birdymiller]

Interestingly the "Practicable" part of the regulations will allow for financial constraints. If you're 20 years in the business & doing well for yourself though, the cost of wfp is not going to cut it as an excuse.
There are other situations where wfp is not practicable,.. in coastal areas the salt from the sea can at times make the results from wfp fairly dire even for experienced users.

been in the business for best part of 15 years and my business is doing well. The cost of wfp is a valid reason not to use it along with the poor results. I choose not to waste money on wfp and to carry on tradding safely with my ladders

[Johnny B]

The cost of wfp is a valid reason not to use it along with the poor results. I choose not to waste money on wfp and to carry on tradding safely with my ladders

100% agree. 

John.

[barry mallett]

Interestingly the "Practicable" part of the regulations will allow for financial constraints. If you're 20 years in the business & doing well for yourself though, the cost of wfp is not going to cut it as an excuse.
There are other situations where wfp is not practicable,.. in coastal areas the salt from the sea can at times make the results from wfp fairly dire even for experienced users.

been in the business for best part of 15 years and my business is doing well. The cost of wfp is a valid reason not to use it along with the poor results. I choose not to waste money on wfp and to carry on tradding safely with my ladders

if you were getting poor results you were obviously not using it correctly . its windys like you that give wfp a bad name and you should stick to tradding

[Paul Coleman]

I did 14 years on the ladder and have done the last 6 WFP.
I turn over a lot more money these days but spend a lot more on equipment too.
The safety stuff didn't bother me too much when I first read about it but when I thought back, there were a number of near misses - two in particular were very alarming.  I got lucky though.  Either of those two could have killed/seriously injured me.  As it turned out, the only consequences were a few scratches and a change of underpants.
When I first switched to WFP I encountered difficulties - the first one being access to purified water.  I live in a flat set back from the road and with parking issues.  Clearly I couldn't make water at home.  Again I got lucky and got a place for an IBC and RO where the only fee was a bit of free window cleaning.  This was not ideal though due to the wooden floor.  Inevitably there was an occasional spillage or leak.  So, after a few years, I again got lucky and found an affordable place with concrete floor - where I have been since last Spring.  There is rent to pay and metered water but I feel a bit more independent now.

Also, there were quality issues on some first cleans.  There were also some customers who just didn't like it - even though they agreed the work quality was fine once I got past the second cleans.  A few customers cancelled over it.  I cancelled some jobs over it (mainly link detached ones).  Not everywhere had suitable access for WFP.
Over a 6 month period, I probably lost or cancelled about 5% of my work.  There were also some "mystery" cancellations which may have been over WFP (or may not).  However, I was able to take on work that I couldn't do previously.  No more knocking on the door first to ask a customer to move their car a couple of feet so that I can get the ladder in the space.  No more tile walking (lethal on the green ones when wet).

In spite of all the advantages, I felt like packing it in at times and reverting to traditional methods in the first three months.  Getting stick from some customers plus my water supply difficulties whilst using poles that were overly heavy.  A lot of the kit that is around now wasn't around then.
Also, at first with WFP, I had to think through every action until it all became a habit.  I could end a day a lot more stressed than with ladder work.  It took a while to learn new habits.
Would I go back to trad now?
No chance.
Maybe prolonged freeze-ups might force it for a while but not otherwise.

[Nathanael Jones]

The cost of wfp is a valid reason not to use it along with the poor results. I choose not to waste money on wfp and to carry on tradding safely with my ladders

100% agree. 

John.

I wonder would the courts agree in the event of an accident?

[Ian W]

]if you were getting poor results you were obviously not using it correctly . its windys like you that give wfp a bad name and you should stick to tradding

I tried wfp on a modern house with modern, upvc, leaded windows. The results were rubbish, despite my best efforts and no other problems on other houses. WFP isn't always suitable, but the way people go on about it makes it sound like a magic wand. Because of the problems, it actually takes me longer to do the house with wfp than trad and I get better results when using trad...  :

[Ian W]

The cost of wfp is a valid reason not to use it along with the poor results. I choose not to waste money on wfp and to carry on tradding safely with my ladders

100% agree. 

John.

I wonder would the courts agree in the event of an accident?

Of course they would agree IF you have gone through the correct risk assessment and discounted wfp for valid reasons.

[Lee GLS]

This topic is pointless, wfp guys will always use the ladder safety argument, and trad guys will also use the cost the supposed overheads of wfp and the apparent bad results it gives.

But in reality a good wfp'ers knows that it will give better results in most cases if cleaned correctly, and as for the overheads, I put £10 aside per month and that covers me for when I need resin or new filters.

As for ladders, they have there place and if used with some common sence, can be safe to a degree, and most wfp'ers probably carry ladders as there are times when they are needed, so that can't be that dangerous.

In conclusion, 99.9% of wfp guys wouldn't revert back to trad, and 99.9% of trad guys will never admit that wfp is safer and does a better job, as for wanting to see the glass, the personal touch, finished result rubbish, that is all excuses as far as I'm concerned, it's only cleaning windows, it's not an art form, it's a means to an end. I couldn't careless about seeing the end result, I am confident in my cleaning and that I can walk away knowing i have done a good job.

Anyway like I said that is a pointless topic, wfp'ers will agree with me, trad guys won't and it will never change.

[dazmond]

so birdy you went wfp for 2 years then went back to the ladders!!


you must be the only guy that has!did you get a lot of complaints with wfp?did you have some bad/costly experiences with equipment?and did you  have a round that could just about pay your bills with hardly anything left over for equipment?

i had one or two complaints but ive now ironed out most problems and 95% of the time windows come up fantastic better than trad with frames gleaming.

ive bought good quality equipment(p/f trolley,clx etc)

i already had a round that easily payed my bills but now its more profitable and my earning power has increased due to cleaning extra windows i couldnt clean before plus picking up bigger better paying jobs.add on work has increased a lot in spring/summer months as well(conny roof/fascia cleaning).


i enjoy my working day more with piece of mind that my feet are on the ground(most of the time!!).a lot of custies have commented how good the pole is and how i do a thorough job!!


i lost 3 custies as a direct result of the pole and picked up many more in just 9 months.



regards


dazmond

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

just goes to show dazmond was a die hard
tradder same as i was , if ing n are ing about
swopping over to wfp
i had a excellent wfp er at hand who helped
me no end and still does to some degree
it helps that we r friends to but if i get excellent results
fr wfp n others dont they are either using rubbish water
or cleaning different dirt to they rest ov us !!!!!!!

[prestigeclean]

i was working in a cul de sac on wednesday and a trad guy turned up and started a house , by the time he had finished i had cleaned 3 very similar houses and got the money and my mate had cleaned 4 , i had a chat to the guy  after and he said he,d been trad for 10 years , after seeing our results he said it was time he changed over regards alan

[Paul Coleman]

My eyes were really opened when I went out for the day with some guys who work for a supplier.  Flats that were 4 stories (3 + ground) high were being whipped through at one hell of a pace - and this was with kit that I might regard as too heavy these days.  I just asked it it really could be done that fast with good results.  The reply came back that it could so long as the flow rate was pretty high.  These days I know what they mean.
That day is what I still refer to as my Mr Toad moment.
It took a while to start getting similar work for myself but when I did, I knew what could be achieved (first cleans excepted of course).

I don't know if any of the nay sayers have ever seen WFP being used properly on volume work but if they did, they might just re-think it.

[birdymiller]

so birdy you went wfp for 2 years then went back to the ladders!!


you must be the only guy that has!did you get a lot of complaints with wfp?did you have some bad/costly experiences with equipment?and did you  have a round that could just about pay your bills with hardly anything left over for equipment?

i had one or two complaints but ive now ironed out most problems and 95% of the time windows come up fantastic better than trad with frames gleaming.

ive bought good quality equipment(p/f trolley,clx etc)

i already had a round that easily payed my bills but now its more profitable and my earning power has increased due to cleaning extra windows i couldnt clean before plus picking up bigger better paying jobs.add on work has increased a lot in spring/summer months as well(conny roof/fascia cleaning).


i enjoy my working day more with piece of mind that my feet are on the ground(most of the time!!).a lot of custies have commented how good the pole is and how i do a thorough job!!


i lost 3 custies as a direct result of the pole and picked up many more in just 9 months.



regards


dazmond

maybe im the only one im not sure. Wfp on residential work for me is total overkill. ill stick to my ladder thanks while you guys carry on with the future of window cleaning, my arse. Maybe im just a stuck my ways tight yorkshire man who gets his work done with little overheads and hastle(ie leaks, freezing, van moves, refilling, pole replacement, hoses) or maybe ive just got my head screwed on right. Just because your custies havnt got rid of you doesnt mean they love wfp. After i switched back to trad loads told me how crap it was and how they much prefer trad but didnt want to tell me as they thought iwas a decent bloke. Threads like these where people come on and say that ladders are banned wind me up, us tradders dont come on saying wfp is garbage unless you lot start it. Dont talk money on here dazzy boy but between you and me i do very well

[alfynokes]

I'm trad as well, but I can see the benefits of wfp it's another tool to get to windows and jobs I couldn't with trad.

However my biggest fear is what the customers would think compared to trad. Fear is the foe

[geoffreyspecht]

trad all the way for for me