[Adam P]

we've been asked to quote to clean a smallish office and need some advice as this would be our first dealing with TUPE and it's something i'm very scared of.

There is currently 1 cleaner for just 2 hours working every work day between 6am-8am.

although it's only a small amount i'm completely new to TUPE and have no clue what to do with quoting (will i need to increase price slightly to cover any potential TUPE problems) as well as what information we need to know to take this any further. I didn't ask the owner of the office anything about it as i didn't know at the time if i need to know anything more so have limlited information about this.

when i submit my quote will i need to ask for details of the last cleaning company so i can get in touch if i am successful? do  ineed to know anything? i assume it's ok to provide a quote and then state that this quote does not take into account TUPE which could increase the price?

i'm worried that although we shouldn't lose it and the business wont go out of business but we'll be stuck with any issues from previous employment.

also a little off topic: do people ever go back to the client and ask more questions after doing a site visit if they realise something isn't cleared? e.g. this customer asked for hand towels and toilet rolls, however they never mentioned the hand soap. i may just give the price for this so not so bad but in past i've had other thoughts and held back from asking more questions after i've visited the site as it feels amatuerish.

[garyj]

Why does TUPE increase the price 

[Adam P]

i've seen it said before on here that it's something to consider. if you take on staff who haven't had any holiday yet then you need to pay this, same with if you lose the site for whatever reason then you're responsible for redundancy pay. i know it's only a small site but it's only small profits so don't want it eaten by chance we have to deal with additional costs.

as mentioned this is first time i've dealt with TUPE so could be wrong which is why i've made this thread.

[garyj]

I'm afraid that is something you have to swallow and unfortunately it's the law. This is doubly stupid because more often than not it is the cleaner on sites work that has lost the contract in the first place.
When you awarded the contract you have to write to the other company and request the terms and conditions, pay and holiday entitlement for the cleaners on site. Very often you won't get a reply! Any holiday entitlement that cleaner has earned passes straight to you, that is what TUPE is all about. You can't charge extra for it, who are you going to charge? The customer has already paid it to the other company so won't want to pay it again, the leaving company aren't going to give it to you, so you have to think what t he lifetime of the customer profit is and weigh up the pros and cons to see if the contract is worth taking, if you are good and plan to hang on to the contract for years then usually its a bitter pill worth swallowing.   

[garyj]

i assume it's ok to provide a quote and then state that this quote does not take into account TUPE which could increase the price?

Hers is a quote from your website :-

"Pay How You Like

What the contract states is what you pay, there are no extra hidden charges, with plenty payment options available for each cleaning service."

If you write something on your website shouldn't you honour it or am I being old fashioned?

[Adam P]

i don't understand what you're getting at with the last post.

[Pristine Clean]

Adam,

Call me and I will guide you.

Dave

[Pristine Clean]

I'm afraid that is something you have to swallow and unfortunately it's the law. This is doubly stupid because more often than not it is the cleaner on sites work that has lost the contract in the first place.
When you awarded the contract you have to write to the other company and request the terms and conditions, pay and holiday entitlement for the cleaners on site. Very often you won't get a reply! Any holiday entitlement that cleaner has earned passes straight to you, that is what TUPE is all about. You can't charge extra for it, who are you going to charge? The customer has already paid it to the other company so won't want to pay it again, the leaving company aren't going to give it to you, so you have to think what t he lifetime of the customer profit is and weigh up the pros and cons to see if the contract is worth taking, if you are good and plan to hang on to the contract for years then usually its a bitter pill worth swallowing.   

Gary,

I don't agree that it was the cleaner that will lose the contract in the first place.

It is the cleaning company responsibility to monitor the site so that this does not happen.

If the cleaning company is too busy or has not priced correctly for monitoring the site by a supervisor or does not have a monitoring system in the first place it is the companies fault.

If the cleaning company has a bad cleaner they need to resolve the issue with training, or replace the cleaner and keep the client happy 100% of the time.

Companies lose contracts because of lack of input and communication with their staff.

Dave

[garyj]

i don't understand what you're getting at with the last post.

Well on your website you say what you quote is what you pay and are now asking if you can charge extra, just doesn't make sense.

But then again you also claim to be surrey's leading greeen carpet cleaner. Err, on who's say so? you've only been going 5 mins. Think you will find there would be quite a few carpet cleaners in Surrey that would take issue with that, one of them being a well known poster on here who has been going years and has awards for Eco cleaning carpets in.....Surrey.

As a matter of interest and a serious question, do you honestly believe you are Surrey's leading green carpet cleaner? If answer is yes please justify and make me look stupid if answer is no then why is it on your web site.

[garyj]

Yes Dave you are half right that the ultimate responsibility comes down to the management of the contract, but it could equally be argued that the cleaner has been trained and therefore knows what to do so they can take some of the blame, they are supposed to be responsible adults after all, they know when they are taking the micky and most will try it on. Some are beyond help and will blame everybody for everything.

[Adam P]

i think you're trying to have a go at something but not really finding that something.

on my website i say you pay what we state, so when i say in the quote it'll cost x and then additional for y and z if they are needed then that is what i state. so this is why i then said i don't get your point. I'm not being hidden with my costs as it'll be in the quote, and on my site i say we put it all in the quote.

yes we claim to be surrey's greenest cleaning company. this is of course something we can't prove and is advertising stuff. we feel we are one of the greenest cleaning companies (we actually aren't a company either but who really cares) in the area and are happy to say it. i could battle with the guy on this forum about how he's greener then us but it'd be pointless as we're both try to be a green cleaning company and imo that's all that matters. you could say that as all he does is carpets but we also do office cleaning then we're greener but it's just arguing over nothing. no customer will get quotes from bnoth of us and choose us over him because we say we're greener.

i wanted the slogan to say where we cover, what we do, and why we're unique. it does all those in a one simple sentence and i like it

i also don't understand your problem with us only going 5 minutes and how this relates to being green?

[Pristine Clean]

Yes Dave you are half right that the ultimate responsibility comes down to the management of the contract, but it could equally be argued that the cleaner has been trained and therefore knows what to do so they can take some of the blame, they are supposed to be responsible adults after all, they know when they are taking the micky and most will try it on. Some are beyond help and will blame everybody for everything.

Gary,

The client wont see it that way. The cleaner is representing the cleaning company.

The cleaner should be adequate and up to the job even before being allowed on site and is / should have undergone a training programme and signed off as Fully Trained.

You have to deliver a high standard. If the cleaner is inadequate then the company is to blame. That's the idea of the monitoring system.

So this does not happen. If monitored correctly then all should be well and any issues caught before the client can find fault.

There are many reasons why standards are not met. It is not all to do with the cleaner.

lack of knowledge from the contractor,  not having the correct tools or tool up to the job or maybe a cleaning specification that is wrong for that environment to name but only a few.

The fault lies with the company whether or not the cleaner is to blame for the issue.

We have over 40 staff and it takes time, effort and money to get to where we are today.

Dave

[garyj]

I'm not disagreeing with you but do think the cleaner shares some of the resposibility, as I said they have been trained so they know what to do. The problem I find is that this industry attracts many people who don't know what responsibility is but want the highest rate of pay for the least amount of work. Some are well beyond help, I'm thinking that if Surrey clean takes on this contract and inherites the cleaner through TUPE in a short space of time the cleaner will go back to old habits within a short space of time.


Back to the 'Leading green carpet cleaner in Surrey' quote from your website. No it's not just marketing talk, I think anything written like that should be qualified in some way. i know I am right in saying that you haven't been cleaning carpets long at all and I would suggest it is a blatant lie that you are the leading company in the county. As you will also do a non-Green clean and the other companies I know of won't it makers the text even more laughable.

My website will be back up in a day or two, you can rip me and mine apart if you want. Would especially be grateful if you find any bull or lies on it, if so I'll change it, I wouldn't want to mislead any of my customers and then just claim it is marketing talk.

[garyj]

i

i also don't understand your problem with us only going 5 minutes and how this relates to being green?

It doesn't, it relates to you being the 'Leading' company. It is a lie and misleading whichever way you look at it.

[Adam P]

well i can't be bothered to go over what leading and the greenest means but basically just want to say that they're not lies as they can't be proved, they're opinions. i see your opinion and now you know ours. in my opinion

if you can define to me what are the set standards to be the greenest cleaning company, or what you need to do to be the leading company then i'll change it if i find i'm wrong. i don't understand why you're so against this. it's fair to say we aren't going to say we're the second most greenest cleaning company in surrey.

[garyj]

Of course it could be proved that one company in particular in Surrey is both Greener and more experienced than you. For one the company I am thinking of only offers Green cleaning, you offer both, this company has also been going over 20 years, is well known and won awards. Also been a member of every organisation I can think of and is someone that people turn to for advice.  To say you are the leading Green cleaning company in Surrey is a lie, and a great big fat one at that. I'm against it because it is an untruth, it's made up deceit and complete bull.
When in a hole stop digging. 

[Pristine Clean]

Gary,

Where Surrey has worded it that they are the greenest & leading company.

Its just marketing. Its subjective. We all promote our companies in the best possible light to attract the right clients.

So as it is subjective it is not actually a lie. Think about about it. Whatever line of work you are in. Do you not consider yourself to be the "best" at what you do?

If you don't then why do you do it? And if you do think you are the best do you tell your customers you are right for the job?

Or would you recommend another company in the same line of work as you? 

And as for awards, they have awards because of marketing and have been recognised for what they do and their size.

Just because Surrey has no awards does not mean he is not the Best at what he does. He is trying to achieve or make a significance that and he may well be the greenest and leading at his sites and better than the previous contractor.


Dave

[Pristine Clean]

I'm not disagreeing with you but do think the cleaner shares some of the resposibility

But the cleaning company placed them at that site. So its the company that is at fault. After all the cleaner is representing You. Although I don't entirely disagree with you

as I said they have been trained so they know what to do. The problem I find is that this industry attracts many people who don't know what responsibility is but want the highest rate of pay for the least amount of work.

I agree.

Some are well beyond help, I'm thinking that if Surrey clean takes on this contract and inherites the cleaner through TUPE in a short space of time the cleaner will go back to old habits within a short space of time.

Not if he implements a monitoring system and adheres to it and manages the staff correctly. If for example there were more than 1 staff to TUPE over and he finds there is one bad egg. He must discipline/remove that bad egg.

[garyj]

Nope, it is worded we are The leading green company in Surrey. He isn't, therefore it is a lie. It's not subjective it is a statement. Are you saying its only marketing so we can say what we like, what complete rubbish.

Do I consider myself the best? nope far from it, there are far more experienced and better cleaners around than me, I have lots to learn yet.
 

[Pristine Clean]

So all he has to do then, is change "The" to an "A" because he could be a leading company.

To prove that would take some doing and I believe would be virtually impossible and to costly for most companies to even consider to be bothered by it. Plus that would make it Subjective if we must really get down to technical details.

Also who would actually challenge him on the subjective line in my opinion? Apart from your good self.