[james44]

I WFP the lot.  I do get the occasional cancellation.  I believe those cancellations would still occur if I did WFP top and trad the lower.

Can you explain why you think they would still cancel paul?

[Dale Smith]

I agree with James on this totally.
When my brother & I started out we were totally WFP, apart from some shopfronts & of course anything inside.
We found we lost the odd custie here & there so asked them why, and got the usual about they preferred it the old way.
As a business we quickly adapted, and on downstairs windows we always blade off........ stopped losing custies straight away.
Yes lots will say what a waste of time, but like James says those extra moments blading off is where the personal touch comes in.... and if you watch the Apprentice that is now our 'unique' or 'added quality' service we provide.
Happy days 

[the bfg]

Hi James.

some interesting points but that doesn't paint the whole picture as to why people cancel or go to 6/8 weeks.

* yes glass does stay cleaner longer when done by WFP so yes every reason for customers to go 6/8/12 weeks *


However the whole culture and concept of not just window cleaning has changed and the current economic climate is still a major factor and customers are watching their budgets more carefully.

ask yourself this  how many cancelled or went to 6/8/12 weeks before the recession happened ?  or how many pubs closed down every week before the recession ?

also since the recession started how many new w/cs have started out  so yes some customers will cancel for a cheaper w/c simply because there are ones that will do it cheaper to get get a foot hold.


there are also plenty of customers who cancel their WFP w/c for another WFP cleaner and not because of price but quality of cleen as there are still lots of WFP cleaners who try and cut corners and prefer quantity of quality of work,

Ive picked up many a job where the customer has actually paid me more than the previous WFP cleaner simply because their work was awful and one of the main reasons being  in and out in 2 mins and charging £15-£20

attitude and personality of operator is also a factor and like in all services your not just selling a service your selling yourself,  thats why the newbies who come from a sales/marketing background do so well.

so yes you may feel that trading the bottoms is the answer but for me its providing the best possible service which includes not just the windows and frames but all the cobwebs around each and every window and knowing that when that customer sees the results they like what they see.

[Paul Coleman]

I WFP the lot.  I do get the occasional cancellation.  I believe those cancellations would still occur if I did WFP top and trad the lower.

Can you explain why you think they would still cancel paul?

In the last couple of years, it's usually been about finance when I've asked.
I do believe it's more economical to carry the loss of a few customers on the way to shaping your business the way you want it.  This is my belief for sole traders and small employers anyway.  Larger businesses and those who sub out may be able to be more lenient as there is more room to carry messers.

[darren clarke]

i dont think blading the bottoms, will stop custys cancelling,  if they want to cancel they will cancel

[Londoner]

I have been cleaning windows (off and on) for more than thirty years and I can tell you its always been the same.
Customers are like chickens, you don't try to understand them. They come and go, whats going on inside their head is a mystery.

[G Griffin]

In a lot of areas (especially the south) window cleaning is more expensive than it used to be. It`s a more noticeable bill, when you pay £20 for example, so people are more liable to cancel.
When it was juat a few quid a month, every month, people don`t mind paying the same.
I think that`s why some areas still do fortnightly.
 
More people would have their cars` serviced regularly if cost a fiver, wouldn`t they?

[AuRavelling79]

I WFP the lot.  I do get the occasional cancellation.  I believe those cancellations would still occur if I did WFP top and trad the lower.  I do tend to trad front doors most of the time though because if they are still wet when they open them, the water can be dripping onto the hall carpet.  Also, if there is a realistic danger of freeze up I might trad ground floor windows above a pathway etc and possibly use rock salt and/or an alcohol based spray to reduce risk.
I reckon that if I tried hard to give my customers everything that I thought they wanted, I would make less money than by working the way I find most convenient.  That's why I work in rain too (unless it's really bad).  I might get the odd cancellation over it but I lose a lot less time and the business is more profitable over all.
I've no problem with pleasing my custies until it costs me time/money.

Top post Shiner!

[darren clarke]

wc is still classed as a beer money job, no matter what we do with new vans and systems,  just will still cancel if they want,  custy do it with other bills,  forget to pay the gas and ele bill one month and then play catch up,  we just notice it more,

if a custy cancelling bothers you, then u dont have enough custys,  go knocking for a hour 1 nite,  u dont see the big boys on here   moaning when they lose a 8-10 job,  it use to annoy me when i lost a custy now i dont care, just go out and knock,  am at docs to moz so will spend rest of day knocking,  to replace the messers that i will get in nov and december,

this business is simple  why do people try to over think thinks and complicate it

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

Anyone with experience will tell you that back in the last resession customers cancelled due to their personal situation.

If you called after 4 weeks they complained 'is it that time again', for this reason we streched our visit time.

Customers will give you any reason they can rather than say "I can't afford it" it's nothing to do with the method.

[darren clarke]

in my opnion if we lose custy becasue of wfp, it is usually because the custy thinks we havent earnt the money so begrudge paying it,  looking at what, cancel becasue of wfp   it is usually the ones who are in when u clean  have nothing else to do all day except moan about life

it only dawned on me the other day after a first clean  the previous wc never use to turn up unless phoned,  the women moan i never got up there to scrup the frames by hand like the other chap did, she didnt have a prob with the windows as they where clean,  it was i never got up there to scrub the frames, so in here eyes i never earnt the money

[dazmond]

i think personally james  that its a mixture of the high price charged for the cleaning,the recession and general doom and gloom.

i would say that most custies are really not bothered as long as the windows are clean when im done!!

i have a lot of very compact lower priced work(compared to some of you!)and 4-5 weekly is fine.i am taking on bigger jobs on 6-8 weekly mostly because of the higher price charged.

ive had a few cancel here and there but so what?nothings changed!its the nature of the business we re in.

im 80% WFP/20% TRAD.i do trad some ground floor work in tight spaces or if the windows are badly oxidised or old wooden panes.i also scrim doors mostly as most custies prefer it than dripping wet esp as the colder weather moves in.i have bladed the odd window for a custy so they can see out of the kitchen windows or if i know it might spot.not a problem!

i agree with  the guy who posted about attitude to custies and selling yourself etc.makes a difference and you can still add a personal touch without losing too much time!

for those of you who think its a pain to swap from wfp to trad the answers simple really!


keep pouches/cloths/squeegee on ya belt with a bottle so ya dont need a bucket!keep the bucket in the van half full and just give the mop a quick dunk when you need to go back to the van for something and use the bottle if your mop runs dry when your cleaning a property.simple!

ive not got a problem with tradding ground floor windows as long as i dont have to get my pointer out to reach the top of the windows.i dont much though as wfp IS quicker and frames come up better.


you guys who are scared of wfpoling ground floors really dont have much faith in wfp do you?just get on with it!and spend a little extra time scrubbing and rinsing!itll be worth it!


dazmond

[Paul Coleman]

More people would have their cars` serviced regularly if cost a fiver, wouldn`t they?

No.  Because there would be no-one to do the servicing.

[Newannaive]

self cleaning? never had any..

i think every house is different, i wfp all the tops then its prob 50/50 on the bottoms..

say if the custys in, usually trad the bottoms, (keeping the peace)..

yes wfp keeps the glass cleaner for longer but i use the same water on the bottoms trad,

so they keep clean the same amount of time 

but, if the custys out at work say... just wfp the lot!

[mci services]

I have been cleaning windows (off and on) for more than thirty years and I can tell you its always been the same.
Customers are like chickens, you don't try to understand them. They come and go, whats going on inside their head is a mystery.

listen to this man because that my findings, they are just plain mad

[G Griffin]

More people would have their cars` serviced regularly if cost a fiver, wouldn`t they?

No.  Because there would be no-one to do the servicing.

I said "would". They may not get it done for a fiver but I think more would.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

I had a car i got it serviced whenever it was due!
I had a car and left its service till its oil light came on!
I have customers who have there windows cleaned when they are due!
I dont clean windows for people who 'can you leave them this time'!
Clean wfp tops and bottoms ALL windows doors and garage doors.
Lost 1 customer to date. (had her house repo'd)
Offer every 4 weeks only!
Happy days
Lads get your act together, do you run your business or the customer!!
Never had any customer say can you leave it, or can you do it every 8 weeks!
Why
Dont give them the option.
Can you go into a shop and tell the shop keeper how you are going to buy and pay for there product??
NO
they tell you!!!!
Run a business
Your family needs feeding every day!!!!
I love windows me!
     

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

James, how do you know other windies are losing cutomers?
You started around the same time as myself. Can i ask, How do you find time to do all your one off cleans? As you have stated there are hundreds out there.
How many do you do a week?
Thanks
Dave

[james44]

how do you know other windies are losing cutomers?

From the posts on here!

You started around the same time as myself. Can i ask, How do you find time to do all your one off cleans? As you have stated there are hundreds out there

I fit them in kent

How many do you do a week

At the moment around 25 if it keeps getting to that amount it will be around 1200 over the course of the year


I have 75 regulars that i do plus the one off`s and do insides on weekends but i now have my sister to help out on the internals.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

are you wanting to go full time?
You started off this post with
All you who are losing customers.
Who do you mean?