[TCS Group]

Hi,

we are thinking of buying a portable carpet cleaner like the steempro, truvox 55 or the ninja.

Can anyone please tell me the benefit of buying a triple vac over a twin and in terms of performance what's the difference between the two.

thanks,

Danny

[markpowell]

If you want to run it from the van get a triple vac if your budget will run to it, if you are wanting it as a portable in and out van, up down lifts / stairs  and you dont need to run more than 50ft vac then go for a twin vac machine
Mark

[ianharper]

Danny

Mark is spot on its about recovery and the distance you intend to work from the machine. many carpet cleaners get caught up in this power issue thinking its all to do with cleaning, well its not the dirt is released without the power of vac if your method is right.



I would look more at water flow as if you have good dirt release methods but don't flush well then you have to keep going over and over the carpet making it wetter each time and then adding to drying times.

This power issue is all about working hose runs the longer the run the more power you need to recover the dirty water.

you cant think about this issue like you are buying a normal vac. housewife's are sold vac's on their power mostly the reason was the recovery tank size. the bigger the recovery area the more power they needed to get the vortex. if you look at modern vac the power rates are going down because of eco marketing but also the size of the recovery tanks are also getting smaller. you only have to look in our field at the prowler to see this in action.

so as Mark said its hose runs that are important here, if you release the dirt first and then flush well you be winning. you don't need vac power to clean.

I have had triple vac  in the past and they are heavy.

Hope that helps

Respect

Ian Harper

[Simon@arenaclean]

I have to agree with both the above posts, but there is another factor. I bought a tripple for longer hose runs but also to get better recovery and remove more solution from the carpet improving my drying time. Ian makes a good point about rinsing and the effectivness of being able to rinse well and recover dirty water. Running a pump at 250psi+ improving rinsing and recovering more with additional vacuum makes my job easier but not better. All four areas  of Ian's chart are important and results can really be improved without the heavy artillery by using the correct chemicals and the combination of mechanics (agitation) and dwell and will really enhance your results. But it is clear you can agitate with a £30 brush and rinse with a single vac 70psi machine, it just depends how quickly you want to do it.   

[markpowell]

If your running at 250psi you need to recover more water, it does not mean that the carpet is any cleaner or the cleaning is any faster.
Mark

[wynne jones]

I use this pie formula


G



A




T







Get A Truckmount

If you can't afford one just yet fine, just get a bog standard Ninja, work hard and then GAT. You get all the above 10x without arsing about trying to make something into something it isn't.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Weight is surely an issue.

I will be using my twin vac porty for the first time in 3 months today and I'm not looking forward to getting it up all the stairs which I have to do as access is an issue.

A triple vac would be even more difficuult and there isn't anywhere to leave it otherwise I would use the TM.

Cheers

Doug

[Joe H]

There is a triple vac machine on the market that weighs in probably about the same as maybe most of twin vac machines - 79 lbs - can be loaded into a van one handed (with a bit of help of the knee) - I know cause I have done it.
It took 3 weetabix for breakfast to do it though - Derek would probably have to have 2 big maccies. 

[Simon@arenaclean]

If your running at 250psi you need to recover more water, it does not mean that the carpet is any cleaner or the cleaning is any faster.
Mark

That was my point.

Running a pump at 250psi+ improving rinsing and recovering more with additional vacuum makes my job easier but not better I've never really measured myself against time just the results because I don't fly from job to job but taking that into consideration I concede a truckmount would probably be quicker than me as there will be less wanding due to higher psi and more vacuum increasing recovery with less strokes. I'm sure a tripple vac would be more efficent than a 70psi single but as I said not better.

[Joe H]

Nah, dont agree "I'm sure a tripple vac would be more efficent than a 70psi single but as I said not better".

You said it yourself "Running a pump at 250psi+ improving rinsing and recovering more with additional vacuum......"

If you recovering more, more of what???    more water     or rather      MORE DIRTY WATER
Therefore you making the carpet cleaner cause you removing more dirty water.      Correct.

[clinton]

Are you going to use it from the van or a car mate as you could have a water tank in the van and make it easier to run as van mounted.

[robert meldrum]

As you see........this question always becomes an argument based on personal opinions. The vast majority start in this industry with portable machines, some seemingly so lacking in power in terms of pump pressure and vacuum extraction ratings.
While the theory of high power is fine and in most cases will, if used properly achieve a greater removal of soiling from carpets it's not necessary and not necessarily the best treatment for all carpets.
If, for instance, you're intention is to clean mainly commercial flooring, the best option is neither 2vac nor 3vac, but a rotary system, preferably an oscillating pad system with an encapsulation product.
On the other hand, if you intend targetting domestic work  HWE is probably the best option. This is when you have to determine, who will carry out the work as the physical handling and operation of equipment is multi variable.
It's great to have the power that allows you to leave the machine in the van when it's viable, but it's not so great if you find regular work several flights up and no lifts.
As Clinton says..........there are other issues to be considered than just power.

[Ian Gourlay]

I think it depends how fit you are

I do not want to arque with Joe (Yes I Do)

But in my opinion these triple vac 800psi machines require a lot of stength and ramps.

I would not want to hump one upstairs

Until recenley two of our leading suppliers only had twin vac machines with 135psi  pumps and claimed in Cleaning Guides this was the optimum set up for cleaning domestic carpets.

Then someone impirted a big beast from the states amd everyone had to have one .

In my opinion if you are going yo have a heavy machine its got to be truck mounted of not you will eventually do yourself damage 

[Jim_77]

Several flights up and no lift.... all you need is a bungee strap to stop the hoses falling out the window

But I get what you mean Robert, these things always descend into the same debate :

When are people going to learn that you're not a proper carpet cleaner until you get a truckmount

p.s. Ian you don't need to lump a triple vac upstairs, thats the whole frickin point!  100ft of 2" hose goes a long way.

[Simon@arenaclean]

Nah, dont agree "I'm sure a tripple vac would be more efficent than a 70psi single but as I said not better".

You said it yourself "Running a pump at 250psi+ improving rinsing and recovering more with additional vacuum......"

If you recovering more, more of what???    more water     or rather      MORE DIRTY WATER
Therefore you making the carpet cleaner cause you removing more dirty water.      Correct.

I see your point Joe, but would you not rinse the same amount of dirt out of a carpet using multiple strokes (wet and dry) as you can with 1 or 2 with a more powerful machine. You've taken a step to exclusively using your portable I bet your customers will not note a reduction in your high standards.

[Ian Gourlay]

Jim unless you leave it on van you are eventually going to do your back

feeling sorry for myself as I have done it to my left side muzzles could hardly walk yesterday

Contacted Social services ordered Zimmer Frame started filling forms in before Mr Caneron stops them

Just deciding which car i will get you all to buy me

[Mike Halliday]

I agree with Joe, we can talk about flushing, temperature, agitation etc..etc but these are just incidentals because nothing has actually been cleaned until the vacuum motors do their job which is to suck the dirty water out of the carpet. all the elements of the cleaning pie they are meaningless, without the final stage..... EXTRACTION

 and it not just long hose runs that needs vac power. the vacuum also have to over come the resistance of the carpet fibres, (think about a flotex carpet apposed a deep pile carpet) if the solution falls to the base of a deep pile you need a strong vac to pull it back again.

its 'Hot Water Extraction' not 'hot water flushing' or 'hot water aggation'

[james roffey]

Several flights up and no lift.... all you need is a bungee strap to stop the hoses falling out the window

But I get what you mean Robert, these things always descend into the same debate :

When are people going to learn that you're not a proper carpet cleaner until you get a truckmount

p.s. Ian you don't need to lump a triple vac upstairs, thats the whole frickin point!  100ft of 2" hose goes a long way.

I agree with Jim i use a triple vac and can if need run over 1oo feet i recently did a flat 3 storeys up the machine stayed in the van have also done tower blocks and just put in in the lift, simple the "taking it up stairs" debate is futile as the main reason i have a triple is it never goes upstairs

[Joe H]

But in my opinion these triple vac 800psi machines require a lot of stength and ramps.
I would not want to hump one upstairs

Ian
I posted earlier on this thread that there is a 3 vac machine available that probably weighs less then 2 vac machines.
I just been to the Ashbys site and the 2 vac Ninja weigh about 88lbs, my 3 vac Scorpion weighs almost 10lbs less.
I can lug the Scorpion up 2 flights of flats stairs, this year I have given up going up to 3rd floor - thay can get a young un to do their clean - wont be as good as mine, but there you go.  

Just seen Jims post. I wont run hoses up side of a building as I work by myself. Just need someone walking by, or some yob start tugging on it and it falls on em and you will be living in a tent ie home seized to pay the legal damages they sure to claim and win.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Having loaded my porty and Texatherm heated tank to get some hotter water I managed to park outside the job and with a bit of messing around ran my TM hoses up through the window on 3rd floor.
I had to go across busyish pavement, (up by the Cliff Lift Jim, )

It was an extremely difficult place to put a porty, too high up to get pipes from GF and a really difficult stairway.

I suppose part of getting older is wanting easier jobs but it's a real shame a porty can't be powerful and portable!

Cheers

Doug