[Sunshine/Cleaning]

Back in the late 80's when I first started window cleaning there was no info out there apart from the NFMWGC. It was the only 'go to' place for information. In the last 10 years or so we have just about got to the point of information overload.

There are numerous means to get info, such as through forums like this Nats's and others.  And this is where I think the Fed has missed a trick.

Bryan says that Nats Guild is just an internet Guild, suggesting it has no value in the real world. What he misses is that since the 80's time and technology have moved on. The internet is where everything can happen.

The Fed's lack of interest in moving window cleaning forward was highlighted by the 'Impact Debris gate' on Newsnight. The resistance to look at other methods was embarasing. The fed could do well to learn from Nat's honesty and dignity with which he presents himself.

The Fed IMHO seems to be reactive rather than pro-active in its dealings and simply being the oldest out there does not make it 'fit for purpose'.

Any chance of a Fed Forum or wouldn't that get past the commitee? 11 pieces of federation news is hardly informative is it?

Do you really only have 2000 members? Thats shocking, there are 20,000 on this site. How many members did you have at your peak? I wonder what the average age is of the membership? Or for that matter the commitee?

What will the Fed be doing in the next year? And don't tell me to come to a meeting, I'm running a business and make use of modern technology, I want info at my fingertips. And why don't you advertise on here rather than only appearing when Nat or someone else who you see as 'competition' posts something?

I have been a Fed member in the past but felt the benefits were light. A magazine every now and then and 'discounted' goods hardly did it for me.

With the Guild you pay for what you get, which while light itself doesn't have the arogance to think it is something it is not.

In short Bryan, the Fed need to cach up, get pro-active and keep up with the times. maybe that way the next generation will take you more seriously.                       

[darren clarke]

the problem with feds is that it doesnt matter how many members they have, they just present themselves to the right people and there fore get asked for info, h and s and the gov, i could start a fed and right off to people saying i represent a certain industry and there fore they should ask my advice

if the fed only has 2000 members then this is bad for a business that says it repsents wc, as besides dave morris, i dont know any other wc that are members,  then again that is the same with the guild,

has the fed got any thing to do with impact 43 training  (nvq)

[Carl2009]

Could agree more with you Stuart. I looked at the Fed when I was starting out and it seemed outdated and stuck in the 80's. I see the Guild as representing the new generation of WC.

[lee09]

Great, well thought out and accurate post.
I like Carl2009 found them outdated when I looked at them 10 years ago.
Lee09

[Moderator David@stives]

Yes Bryan

Wake up, so far this year, you have only helped my business grow by 150% yes only 150%, what's with all this professionalism rubbish,

I mean someone from the fed actually set up a meeting with the HSE for christ sake and asked them about balcony access and stepping on to flat roofs !! who would have the audacity to ask people in power such things, then the absolute icing on the cake, was some poor lady from the FED actually stayed up all night so it could be published in the only magazine for window cleaners.

Oh and while we are on magazines what kind of thing is that, I mean print went out with the arc, I will have to ditch taking my pc to the dinner table and to the toilet, while i read your mag, how inconsiderate of you.

I cant beleive when i fill in tender documents there is actually a tick box for government trade associations, and if I tick it i have to actually photocopy my cert to send with the document, if your organisation didnt get too big for your boots, they wouldnt even hear about you, which would save me loads of ink and postage.

dont even get me started on advice, last time i phoned one of your guys for help he kept me on the phone for 2 hours, who in there right mind would do that, especially phoning me back at 7.30, i mean i was just about to watch Coronation street,now i will have to wait until next week to watch the omnibus edition.

Next you will even get that Willis guy to run the nvq's you invented, oh dont tell me you have already gone and done it !! you have havent you.

I will talk more about the safety training days and trade shows later, you know my feet are actually killing me from the last time i walked round all day.

brb, just off to moan at the wife

[Clive McDonald]

Very well reasoned post Stuart. The problem is the reply, if any, won't be any where near the same standard.

Forget the rights and wrongs, they just don't have anyone coherent enough to get any kind of argument across.

[lee09]

Yeah Stuart, crap post.

[Moderator David@stives]

Maybe they don't have to get the point across.

Some of us get it, some of us don't.

Most of them who don't, will never be convinced anyway.

Simlar to trying to reason with the wife during a full moon, it can't be done

[Bryan_Dolby]

Stuart
I will answer this as honest as I can, I questioned Nat about a statement he made saying the guild had a better understanding of the WAHR to me gets very frustrating as the guild as had no dealings with the WAHR to date.
When the WAHR white paper came in from the EU in 2000, it clearly stated that all ladders are to be BANNED, the FWC, HSE and other parties called a meeting to fight this. (You know the outcome ladders can still be used if you have done a risk assessment,)  Regs came in force 2005,
How can the Nat and GUILD have a better understanding of the WAHR?
Guild been going two and half years now, I have already said never seen them at any trade show, nobody from them as attended key industry meetings. I have never seen any thing happen but on the cleanit up site
Nat I do not think will come to the England to deal with industry concerns, or anybody from this guild doing any representation
20.0000 on this site how many actually post any thing? I would guess 50 regularly post
You question the FWC Not having a forum
In my opinion I would not re invent the wheel, there Is this forum and another forum I do not think you can beat these forums, For information  and if the FWC did one it could only be for FWC members ,THIS FORUM IS INDEPENDENT AND YOU GET SOME QUALITY ANSWERS.
If the guild has there own site why are they always on here.
(Crystal ball few weeks’ time new post what is this guild, should I join the FWC)

Pro active or re active
News night was all about this magic wand WFP it is supposed to clean every thing (it was said it does take off egg, putty, paint, stickers, mastic, bird crap)
Yet if you go back to WFP problems on this site, WFP does not, people said they now use scrapers to take off bird crap, sticker’s mastic,putty,mastic.AND GO BACK TO LADDERS
THE PROGRAM WAS NO GOOD FOR ANY BODY.
Why is the FWC not on here, please read a lot of previous posts it gets blasted what ever it does?
Let’s go back a few years when it was highlighted from the insurance under writers that our industry needs to change, we were having problems getting insurance PL and EL .
FWC starts the changes
FWC changes name
FWC profile change
Writes guidance with HSE
FWC to help write NVQ standards
Production of DVD WFP & LADDERS
Organises trade shows
Attends industry meetings
H &S training course production IOSH accredited WFP & LADDERS
Just a few of the changes above not just to make our industry professional but the profile of window cleaners.
If the FWC was not here how would any body have got any thing change and achieved
All this does not happen over night, the HSE guidance took one year to finish
FWC needs new young committee members to further its profile and new projects, age I have never had a problem with as you cannot beat experience, and you only get that with age, I have done around twenty years on the committee and know even I have to leave soon but on what the FWC s achieved to date it’s done very well
I will give you some questions
If you can get all the window cleaners to join one body at a finical rate that you can achieve every thing, can you understand what you could achieve?
I do not think you will ever achieve any thing charging £20.00 for a membership, and if you put a membership to some thing reasonable £200.00 who would pay? (One day’s pay if you look at some of the pictures of buildings quoted on here?)
My only concern would be could any body arrange a meeting to make the changes and who would commit?
To every body please take a few days to think on what as been put in here, try not to react until you have thought of ever y thing
To every body this as nothing to do with the FWC and I do not mean ant thing against any body just my thoughts
Bryan

[Bryan_Dolby]

Hi Ewan and David

dave i think you are right

Answer for you

Keep the good work up
Bryan

[Bryan_Dolby]

Hi Dave

You can be my mate
My pool needs filling

I wonder why some times


Bryan

[Nathanael Jones]

I don't know why ppl seem to think the Guild is in competition with the Fed,.. The Guild is completely different in nearly every way. I personally think the Fed is a great institution & has done great work for the industry,.. if there was a similar organisation in Ireland I would consider joining.

You're always welcome to join our "Club" Bryan,.. I'm sure there are plenty of window cleaners who are members of both the Fed & the Guild.

[Bryan_Dolby]

Hi Ewan

Tried that  before a article from over the top was a nice lady with wet squeege

Only printed once

What about a nice ladders on front

Bryan

[Dave Willis]

Something puzzles me here. Dave St Ives, why do you feel the need to join the Guild?

[Nathanael Jones]

Bryan I’m really pushing for putting some eye candy on the cover of the FWC magazine.

Join the Guild & I'll send you a pic of Frankybadboy showing off his tan,..

[Moderator David@stives]

I don't feel the need, I don't advertise the fact, I don't display the logo at all.  just giving nat my support, I admire anyone who tries to help the industry.

[Nathanael Jones]

It is appreciated Dave!

[bobplum]

im glad im totally ignorant of whats going on here

[Frankybadboy]

Bryan I’m really pushing for putting some eye candy on the cover of the FWC magazine.

Join the Guild & I'll send you a pic of Frankybadboy showing off his tan,..

nat i have the copy right to that thank you.

[Dave Willis]

I don't feel the need, I don't advertise the fact, I don't display the logo at all.  just giving nat my support, I admire anyone who tries to help the industry.

I seem to remember you having some discussions last year criticising Nat and the Guild and see you fully support the Fed. I was just surprised to see your company listed on the Guilds site.
Maybe it's wrong of people to compare the two - the more the merrier perhaps.