[Philip Hanson]

Yeh I came to my senses suddenly, and merged some of them.

I have spoken to many window cleaners who have taken on people, expanded and gotten a really big business...that they hated!

Only to go back to working alone, even for less money.  Remembering why it was they chose window cleaning in the first place - the stress free life.

The new regulations will mean big changes for window cleaners, and I think that from now on it wont be viewed as the job it once was.  It will be more specialist, and pro window cleaners will probably develop a culture of reporting the dangerous antics of cowboys to the HSE.

-Philip

[Moderator David@stives]

the hse states that they are having a ladder week in the autumn and are going to tighten the use of ladder .how much more can they tighten the law ,when they are basically saying you need to wrap up in cotton wool to go up one now especially for employees. The only way to tighten now is to issue a virtual ban for window cleaners.

dave

[rosskesava]

Cheers Phil

I was supposed to be going to keep the lady company downstairs and I'm glad I didn't.

That seals it. What has been on my mind for some time now.

I have spoken to many window cleaners wjo have taken on people, expanded and gotten a really big business...that they hated!

Only to go back to working alone, even for less money.  Remembering why it was they chose window cleaning in the first place - the stress free life.

I love what I do and the 3 of us have a great time when we are working. I now spend one day a week doing paperwork indoors and the organising and I hate doing it. The reason for all that - tomorrows business.... next week and lately, next months.......

Before it was a few phone calls each evening for the next day's work.

Cheers again.

Hi Dave

This has been gone through time and time again. The H & S cannot 'just' introduce anything that is not legislation. It takes years to change things.

The only way to tighten now is to issue a virtual ban for window cleaners.

Don't think so somehow. Be real. Do you think things really work that way? If they did, then why havn't ladders been banned in WAHD then? They had the opportunity didn't they so why didn't they ban them. That fact must surely be worth thinking about.

Cheers

[Moderator David@stives]

well i did say virtual ban ,the same way cannabis is supposed to be banned ,

well maybe not .

by virtually i mean leaving the ball in your court with no definative answer .ie do what you want but wo be tied if you injure the public or an employee

dave

[Philip Hanson]

Remember - the guidance from the HSE on what they will expect window cleaners to do has not yet been released.  Although the WAHD came in on the 6th April, it is this statement that will be make-or-break.

My gut feeling (and it is only my opinion) is that, having seen that water-fed and extension poles can be used for most window cleaning situations, they'll probably say that you have to use em if its possible to do the job with them.

They aren't stupid, and they can see that window cleaning has a new technology which is being adopted anyway.  It wont be any big shakes for them to help that along.

Because this means getting new equipment, I think its very likely there will be a lead-in period of a year or two.  Time will tell

-Philip

[rosskesava]

erm.................

It's a coming.......... for sure.

It's a question of when?

I think within 10 years. Yup. Only time will tell.

Well, it's good night from me.

the same way cannabis is supposed to be banned

I'm so glad that brain deadening stuff stuff isn't my habit. Imagine going up a ladder hooked on that?

Cheers

[Davindo Cleana]

It's good to know about this prosecution and I hope it keeps us on our toes, but as for this being the thin end of the wedge - the scene of a few cowboys on a roof with no roof ladder etc. is hardly comparable with window cleaning.

If a famer shoots a rabbit, should the sheep be thinking 'It's us next!"
Try saying that when you're drunk

[gaza]

If I was  done by the hse and went to court ,I would use this forum as a defence,cus of all these pro w/c and I bet a few cowboys carnt work out the regs then they must be several grey areas.

 gaza

[williamx]

I will lay a wager, when the HSE get their act together and issue the guildlines so we all no whats what.

The first case of a window cleaner who transgresses these guildlines will be looking at a court summons within 3 months, and the unluckly chappy will be a residential cleaner.

Remember it could be you.

[Moderator David@stives]

If is someone on here i think we could have whip-round  1/2 of the fine will be court costs which should be covered by your liability insurance and the fine ,dont know .Will it be tax deductable  ?

Dave

[williamx]

Rosskesava

An employer is always reponsible, the hse treat the employee as if he has got his brain filled with impacked dirt.

But a self employed person is treated like a employer and he should know all the rules and regulations, even the new ones.

[Thecleanerservice]

I will lay a wager, when the HSE get their act together and issue the guildlines so we all no whats what.

The first case of a window cleaner who transgresses these guildlines will be looking at a court summons within 3 months, and the unluckly chappy will be a residential cleaner.

Remember it could be you.

Exactly how much are you putting on the table as your confident wager against this "unluckly chappy"?  
Just in case we need to collect from you on 20/12/05
Make a note in your diaries "unluckly chappys".

Pj

[williamx]

Dave

The fine won't be tax deductable and the prison sentence for those who carry on and ignore the regulation certainly won't be.

As for your insurance company paying the court costs, I would't bank on it.

[williamx]

I will join the Federation and be a good quite window cleaner.

[Thecleanerservice]

Uninspiring!

[Moderator David@stives]

Prison ,-  doubt that unless there is a death and it is gross negligence

costs --just read ,my policy will cover it

the federation of small businesses will clarify every thing ,i will check it out

Dave

[mark f]

the hse has already issued a statement since the newsnight programs on thier website clarifying the situation. You can use ladders when it safe and sensible to do so but have to consider the alternatives first like wfp.

  It was clearly said at the end of second program that the federation told newsnight that since thier meeting with the hse that they were told by the hse that the regs r.e ladders are to tightened further with the aim of getting window cleaners off ladders. So the writing is definitly on the wall.

[williamx]

I don't know if you keep on taking the p out of the court and you don't comply them prison is an alternative.

But if it happens look on the bright side, all them little window never been cleaned before, wheres me tender pad.

[Thecleanerservice]

Still not much of a wager!
Put yer money where yer mouth is .

[rosskesava]

THe H & S have a mandate not to damage a persons business by introducing rules that would unfairly stop a person carrying out their lawfull trade or business.

How would windows be cleaned with wfp in a place where clean windows are essential to trade and where WFP can't be used?

How about in a shopping center where wfp water would be a hazzard. Or the inside glass inside a hospital where the glass is often cleaned in some places with anti bacterial solutions using ladders albeit shorter one than usual? There are loads more.

If ladders are banned then .......

I think the whole issue has turned out to be much more complex than it appears.

Yup, I'm up for a bet......