[Thecleanerservice]

I respect The Daily Mail.

A lot of my older clients speak very highly of it.

They still use it to polish up their glass!!

Swear by it!!!  With a bit of vinegar.

Pj

[rosskesava]

The Daily Tory is best used with a box of matches.

[Ian_Giles]

Ross,
What was that you were saying in another thread about irrelavent replies leading threads to veer off topic?
Tut tut!

Regards,

Ian

[jsm]

being a pro window cleaner with point ladders !!!! ( thats what it says in the paper ) I mostly do domestic -------------------------------- yes you guesed it - with water fed pole , the points never come off the van now , as wfp is so much quicker and gives a better clean - so much so I have a few change from 4 weeks to 8 weeks because the windows are staying clean for longer 
( it's not just marketing stuff , it works )

as for getting round house's - how hard is it to drag a hose round the back 

one day the world will wake up - by then I'll have cleaned up haha 

[DASERVICES]

  Ian,

  See your bit is in the Daily Mail today, well spoken giving both points of veiw.

[Ian_Giles]

Thanks, yes, I'm pleased they printed my letter, and they didn't edit it too much either, condensed it a little and made what was left a little more formal...cool, I'm in print at last!!!


Regards,

Ian

[AuRavelling79]

Well come on Ian - what did you write? Don't be shy!

[Ian_Giles]

ok, here is the original, blowed if I am going to type out the Mail's version


Copied and pasted

Having just read the letter by Ian Douglas I feel I have to make a few points a little clearer; Firstly on Craig Mawlam, Craig also runs courses on all aspects of window cleaning, from promotion to cleaning techniques for traditional window cleaning as well as Water Fed Pole cleaning. These courses cover all aspects of window cleaning, including the safe and correct use of ladders.

He does indeed have a vested interest in a company that manufactures WFP (Water-fed Pole) systems, but he also works tirelessly in all aspects of the window cleaning industry.

A point must be made in that window cleaning with Water-fed Pole cleans windows to as high a standard as could ever be achieved with traditional methods, often the overall finish is in fact superior.

Indeed, to claim that the domestic customer needs to be educated that windows cleaned with a Water-fed Pole result in a lower standard clean is a grave misrepresentation.

As with any window cleaning method there is a skill involved in the use of WFP, poor standards are down to the operator and not the tools being used

Also; any window that can be reached with a ladder can most certainly be reached with a Water-fed Pole.

Water-fed Pole systems will never take over from traditional methods of window cleaning, it is just another tool for the professional window cleaner to use, but use of ladders is going to be marginalized more and more as time passes.

I am also a professional window cleaner of 21 years experience and use both traditional and Water-fed Pole. But I rarely climb a ladder anymore. There is simply little need to do so.

I help moderate one of the busiest window cleaning forums on the internet (www.cleanitup.co.uk) and there are many thousands of window cleaners that use this forum, a large percentage of them have Water-fed Poles, very few of them go back to using ladders full time, and most find that their personal standards of work have either been maintained or improved upon.

 
For those that read the printed version, it ain't that different, them did himprove me grammur tho


Ian

[pjulk]

Great letter Ian

I hope some of our future customers have read this.

Right thats news night and the daily mail done who's next.

Paul

[Thecleanerservice]

A few on here no doubt.

Fair comments Ian.

Pj

[dai]

Well done Ian, I bet I don't get any clients running out with a copy of your letter though.
Some people don't like change and will use any negative comments to reinforce their own predjudice. Thanks mate, but wouldn't it have been better if that pratt and not written that letter in the first place?
He's made a rod for his own back though, 3 years from now when he has seen the light and wants to convert to WFP, he will have more egg on his face than a Newsnight studio window. Dai

[rosskesava]

The Daily Tory is best used with a box of matches.

Ok Mr Moderator Ian

I hold my hands up and beg pardon. Well not really because I don't do that type of thing very often and at least it did include the Daily Mail...... which was the topic afterall?  :

Anyway, a really well thought out letter and the points were made in a logical order.

The only thing I disagree with is:

often the overall finish is in fact superior.

There are so many factors involved ( for instance - use wfp on a windy day near the coast with rough seas and see how much salt sticks to the water as it dries) but having said that, I think your letter presented a good picture of w/c's and can only do some good for the industry as a whole unlike the bickering on News Night.

Maybe you should phone up News Night .......... (only joking)

Cheers


 

[Ian_Giles]

Thanks ross,

But please note...I did qualify the bit about an overall finish with:

often the overall finish is in fact superior.

I could also have said (equally acurately) 'Often the overall finish is 'inferior'

As you say, it all depends on the conditions.

You won't for instance do such a good job as trad on windows with oxidized frames.

But on most UPVC frames (under normal cleaning conditions) You should be able to do a really first rate job, and it is the way iin which the frames also get cleaned that makes such a big difference.
And of course because there is no detergent residue left behind, the windows do stay cleaner for longer.

Now I've gone and lost track of where I was going with my reply!...Sigh

I've had a very busy couple of days, my biggest ever turn over yesterday!! and another big one today too!

Where's me cocoa?

Ian

[rosskesava]

Hi Ian

UPV frames - I cannot deny it. Or first cleans where it's all filthy.

As for those horrible UPV doors with loads of dirt catching places - brilliant.

Not forgetting windows above a conservatory ....

And so on.

Cheers

[AuRavelling79]

From Ross:-

The only thing I disagree with is:

often the overall finish is in fact superior.

I think the key word here is "often" - in my experience that is true. In fact I would go on to qualify it as follows:-

On UPVC                                                                      Always better
On well-painted wood                                                 Usually better
On Good quality powdercoated aluminium                  Usually better
On lead or georgian                                                     Always better
Anodised Aluminium                                                     The same
Oxidised Aluminium                                                      Usually Worse
On flaky, tatty, frames                                                 Usually Worse
Poor quality painted frames                                        Usually Worse

What is most of your round made up of folks? And what happens when a customer replaces their windows? What do they nearly always go for? UPVC? Thought so!

(Modified to add - posted before Ian's reply hit my screen)

[rosskesava]

Also

Commercial work - shops etc. I defy and would bet any amount of money that wfp would be much slower on about 80% of our work. But for some 1st floor offices we do - what can I say...... A 2 hour job done in about 30 minutes.

Shopping centres - impossible

Victorian leaded glass that leaks - we found out the hard way and we do some places full of it.

Places where the people down below don't want water all over their windows too.

Houses near to the coast on windy days (where I live) but the advantage is that at least we can actually do their windows on windy days. Albeit with spots all over the glass.

And quite a few places that are really old in a congested town centre where access is hard enough anyway and we've tried but by the time everything is set up - it would have been finished with trad methods.

Places with loads of steps and impossible access without climbing over locked gates etc. That may sound odd but around here some people have a ground floor at the front and two or three at the back.

I'm sure if I struggle I could think of more.

Having written the above - wfp is for me a winner and I wouldn't dump it for all the tea in China. Well, maybe I would as I could then sell it all but I guess you get my meaning.

Also, thanks Malc for that list. As we are new to wfp, that'll be usefull.

I know what I've posted has sort of drifted off topic but it somehow seemed to be going that way.

Cheers and keep on buying the Daily Mail for future articles about window cleaning. Something which did not matter a scrap to them untill the subject became worthy of their esteemed status as Englands premier source of what's hot off the press and what will keep the buying public rolling the pennies into the directors pockets and keep the advertisers advertising.. £££££'s

[Ian_Giles]

Mmm, 85-90% of my work is commercial, and 80% of that is in the town centre, and on 100% of the external work, 95% of that is done with WFP

Don't you just love percentages

My work is a 'Town centre' as against a shopping centre, and so for the most part I get up at 5am (ish) and go in early, this means I can park right outside the shops and so on.
Pop the hatch, do a couple of shops with the WFP-leave hatch open, pole hose trailing along behind me I drive up to the next bunch and continue.
So no problems with traffic or pedestrians or traffic wardens.
Chepstow is an ordinary town, it isn't a large place like Brighton so for me it has made the most enourmous difference to work in this way.

Ross, you are right, the last couple of replies to this thread have started to veer, perhaps I'll start a new thread and merge the last few replies into it.

Regards

Ian

[AuRavelling79]

Chepstow is an ordinary town, it isn't a large place like Brighton so for me it has made the most enourmous difference to work in this way.

Ross, you are right, the last couple of replies to this thread have started to veer, perhaps I'll start a new thread and merge the last few replies into it.

Regards

Ian

1. Chepstow is no ordinary town - it's brilliant! I have nothing but good experiences of Chepstow (except getting caught up in race meeting traffic occasionally) it's just close enough to cycle to, it's the gateway to the Wye Valley, Forest of Dean and (almost) the Brecons. It's castle and the old bridge are amazing, the view of it in it's surroundings from the Eagle's nest at St Arvans is phenomenal.

Good pubs too. Jean at the Bridge Inn asked me to do her windows when I was last in there, she said all the Chepstow w/c's spend all their time on some window cleaning web-site, gang up on "S" who's a diamond geezer and urinate in their bucket. She even offered me poached eggs on toast if I clean early in the morning when as she put it "ole Gilesy's moderating on that web-site of his!"

I stood on my dignity - which added little to my height - and said "No! I'll not poach for poached eggs! - what do you think my name is? "S?""

2. I agree, this thread is starting to veer! But it is raining!

3. Fred Locked?

[Sir Squeaky]

Malc, please do the Bridge Inn when you're next there!

Wish someone would, as I won't feel so bad about dropping it when I next see Jean. 
Been friendly with her for many years, that's the problem.

Marvellous comedy there though Malc.

Rog.