[Simon Gerrard]

If I were interested in investing in a heated LM system, which should I go for - Texatherm or Dry Fusion?
I already have the means to carry out LM cleaning with an Rx20 converted with bonnet drive plate, a 15 inch Hild Rotary (very heavy) and an assortment of LM chemicals, my favourite so far being Rotobrite.
I'm thinking of the domestic market at the moment.

Simon

[robert meldrum]

Before investing in heat Simon you might want to consider the advantage of o/p over rotary. I've been aware of it for years and played with lightweight o/p machines as well as running the Tex' system for a while.

The machine Mike's shown in his post is similar to the top performing o/p machines from The Padman in the US ..............this man has been o/p' ing for 30 years and his machines oscillate at a higher speed than others resulting in 50% greater productivety, according to The Padman..............

We are used to heat being " the answer " in tough situations but these machines, with the best o/p products and best pads do not need heat.

[Dave Roberts]

Having trialled both Dry Fusion and Texatherm systems, I invested in Dry Fusion due to what I felt was superior performance in a wide range of applications.

I use heated rotary for 90% of my work, in domestic (70%) and commercial (30%) settings. 

Even when not doing the full Dry Fusion system, the benefits of the heat still apply. Eg... using the machine with Fusion Clean gives excellent results.

The primary benefits to a heated rotary are (a) increase in cleaning effectiveness and (b) very fast drying time, usually 15-30 mins.

I'd therefore recommend DF.   Nothing wrong with Texatherm and nice machines but I found their solution set-up a bit odd (putting down a high pH solution initially, then neutralizing it with a 2nd solution).  Just didn't want to take that approach on every job so DF won it for me.

[Gary Webber]

Hi Simon,

After looking into both systems that were strong at the time around 11 years ago, we purchased the Texatherm System. I have watched both sytems in operation and have found the performance of the Texatherm System consistent. The use of the chemicals, the Advanced Cleaner being ph9.5 and the Neutraliser being ph2 return the carpet to a neutral ph when used properly. Also we clean smaller sizes of areas without reusing pads.

I liked the idea of the Dry Fusion, but found it more of a bonneting system with the size of area people were cleaning with a pad. when  looking into depth of clean the Texatherm produced a deeper style of clean as opossed to an optical clean the dry fusion produced. I also found it difficult that you could heat a pad in time  as the pad comes out of a cold ringer bucket, and then by the time it had heated the pad,  the pad was then soiled. Also I had "issues" with the chemicals used in their process from investigating the content. Just my findings

Regards

Gary

[Simon Gerrard]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for that.
Don't you get the same problem with the Texatherm pad coming out of the hot bucket and then cooling quickly once it gets onto the carpet. How often do you have to change the pad to avoid this?
How important do you feel the heat aspect of the system is as opposed to what the majority seem to be doing with non-heated systems, or is the chemical used the primary consideration in getting the right result? Sorry for the basic questions but I'm a real novice at this.

Simon

[Dave Roberts]

Mine and Gary's comments just prove that there is no objectivity; we all favour the decisions we made and the things we invested in.  There is nothing wrong with the Dry Fusion (it's not an 'optical clean' never heard such a silly comment in my life!) and there is nothing wrong with Texatherm.

They will both give great results in the right hands.     As will a sponge, a tampico and some M-Power.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

David, Activator used to or may still have Optical Brighteners in it, I think that is what Gary may be refering to.

The system IMO is very simular Dry Fusion can keep the pad hotter for longer as Texatherm use the vessel to get it hot then it cools on the carpet, I used to a combination of both with a heater bucket and a dry fusion machine, the chemicals though are totally different IMO.

Shaun

[Simon Gerrard]

I was hoping for a bit more debate on the merits of Texatherm v Dry Fusion. Spoke to Texatherm yesterday and they explained their system very well, even offered to come and do a job with us.
Where I'm stuck with the Dry Fusion system is that if the pad is heated through a plate on the underside of the unit, how long does it take to heat the pad and therefore come to maximum effect? It is that gap in time while the heat transfers to the pad that worries me.
Can any of you experts explain?

Simon

[garry22]

Simon,

The pads are supposed to be heat conductive.

I've found they get hot fairly quickly and (more importantly) stay hot. In other words, it's constant.

I normally have it set at 85 C but turn it down to 65 C for polypropylene. The thermostat cuts in and out on a regular basis. The downside is if you need to carry the machine or drive plate somewhere else. They get very hot (I use heat resistant gloves for this)

One of the reasons I bought it was that the solutions are neutral PH, wheras the other one (correct me if I'm wrong) uses high PH pre-spray and then a neutralising rinse.

We do a few childrens' nurseries and I did not like the idea of having a gigantic water heater in the vicinity.

[Glynn]

The way I understand it it that the heat is only to cure the inbuilt protector of the DF system.
And knowing our Simon's a huge fan of protectors he's would on a winner here .

[Simon Gerrard]

Hi Garry,

I can't say I fancy having to use a new pad every 4 -6 sq yd's as with the Texatherm system, the primary reason for that being that the rinse agent needs to come into contact with the pre-spray while it is still hot, which means an awful lot of pad changes.

How long in time or sqyds does a DF pad last, on average?

Simon

Glyn,
GTFUBFCFL

[clive ware]

Simon,
I`ve used both systems but wouldnt use either on a domestic.
Unless its a belgian wilton that is.

[Simon Gerrard]

Clive,
It seems there are lots of people using only DF or Texatherm on both domestic and commercial and making a go of it. Still a bit sceptical myself so I'm going to have a day with an LM specialist and see for myself.

Simon

[garry22]

I can't say I fancy having to use a new pad every 4 -6 sq yd's as with the Texatherm system, the primary reason for that being that the rinse agent needs to come into contact with the pre-spray while it is still hot, which means an awful lot of pad changes.

How long in time or sqyds does a DF pad last, on average?

Simon,

In fairness to Texatherm, you should get more than that out of each pad.

In answer to your question, to some extent, how long is a piece of string.

I would say about 20m/s on a normally soiled office with DF.

Bear in mind, we always use a Pile Lifter to do the pre vacuuming, which to me is critical. It's amazing how much stuff they shift before we even pre-spray.

Normally with DF and with the heater on (it's basically a 3Kw hair dryer), I find pads dry out before they get too soiled.

They can normally be re-moistened (as long as you do not re immerese them in the clean solution bucket) and probably used for the same amount again. They do hold an awful lot of dirt.

After a cetain time we turned the pad over, presenting the clean (and by this time dry) side to help finish off. you would be surprised at how quickly they dry off with the heater / blower running. They are also hot to the touch after a few square metres. I cannot see how you can keep a pad hot without this constant input.

the only time I had to change pads after a couple of m/s was in an office adjoining a locomotive maintenance yard. We are talking a couple of centimetres of thick petroleum grease on tiles, loosely resting on a wooden floor.

HWE would have warped it as it could run straight between and under them. I actually admitted defeat and walked off (lucky I did a demo first so the client could see the problems.

Garry

[Simon Gerrard]

Garry,

Thanks for that. We seem to be getting ever more office jobs lately, many that may be suited to an LM system. I am leaning towards Dry Fusion, partly because the Texatherm system seems bulky and the dipping pad temperature as opposed to the constantly heated pad of the Df system.
How much do you charge for DF, say for 1,000 sqm?

Kind regards

Simon

[Dave_Lee]

Simon,
The thing with Dry Fusion that you have to consider is, will they allow you have a DF License?
Even if anyone wanted a DF system near us they won't issue any licenses as they protect established DF users. If you picked up a second hand DF system, because you won't have a license they will not supply you with DF chemicals.
I suppose this depends on your area, but may be worth checking out before even thinking about it.
Dave.

[Simon Gerrard]

Dave,

Thanks for that.
Have you used the DF system yourself?

Simon

[stuart_clark]

I dont have a DF licence, yet i buy Activater from DF !

[derek west]

just had my first failure, restoration clean on an office, gutted to find out i'm not immortal when it comes to getting a result. would something like this thread subject done a better job, we are talking disgustingly filthy very old low profile tiles. water marks on everyone, full cups of coffee thats been down for years untouched. and totally grond in dirt so much so that when you put water on them it pools straight away. i made it better but was well unhappy with my efforts, full truckmount clean with extensive bonnetting to finnish. i reckon, out of 100% result i managed about 50%. don't know what else to try other than maybe heated pads with a diff chem.
totally gutted, my first failure.

[Dave Roberts]

Simon,
The thing with Dry Fusion that you have to consider is, will they allow you have a DF License?
Even if anyone wanted a DF system near us they won't issue any licenses as they protect established DF users. If you picked up a second hand DF system, because you won't have a license they will not supply you with DF chemicals.
I suppose this depends on your area, but may be worth checking out before even thinking about it.
Dave.

You're right in essence, it's at their discretion but they don't (officially at least) 'protect territories'.   Also, I bought a second hand DF machine and still paid for the training and became licensed.   Both of my DF machines were bought used, so you can become licensed without having to buy a new machine from them.

David.