[Crystal-clear]

These people just dont have a clue as to how a window cleaner makes a living!

When i was up north earlier in the year i had an easy smooth business and i come to think of it i was happy.

However after hearing the good sides about window cleaning in london Ie:, Higher Rate per man, i Sold up and moved back home to london where i am from i always wanted to go back at some point i thought i might as well now.

I picked up a few customers some myself some with canvasers and indeed it was amazing seemed like everything was an improvement , much higher hourly rate., people paying easy, i was also happy cos i was treated nicely like any other tradesman , which was odd for me cos up north they it seems hard for customers to take you seriously i guess part of it is because a house would be £4.00 average. and in that part of london where i got my 1st work it was £45.00.

SO... i started expanding and MY GOD, i found out getting a good customer is like a bloody lottery you see SO many Dirty windows and so many just dont want a window cleaner, they dont care , and i am only knocking on private homes , the ones that want a window cleaner seem to want me to clean on days when they are at home , jesus christ i say to them , its only £20 every 8 weeks cos it fits into my route....and then they are like Oh,,,,, Right ,,,,,we will leave it then,, so i say please try calling an appointment window cleaner most will charge £50ish for what i do for £20, they are like , oh right ok lets forget it..

I have some customers that refuse to have the 2nd clean even. stating that i did not make them aware enof that its only a regular service they had the impression they can cancel anytime.now i think i am scaring good customers away im talking to much about regular cleaning they get worried and say let me call you....
again in the north it would be like this "Knock Knock" Hi window cleaner etc £5.00 a month yes or no , If yes great, End off , i dont go into agreements i do here as i have been stung many a time.

They simply Text me at midnight (pls dont clean windows anymore etc) this particular person owes i said EEEEEHHHH? you do know you owe me for last time too? he says , you have no written contract with me so p off, i said we had a verbal agreement? he doesnt respond.

I find it here very anoying , when i talk to a customer explaining for 30 mins THIS IS NOT A ONE OFF CLEAN OK? that is what i am forced to say these days cos of my bad experiences they say ok , once the dirt from 5 years back is off they dont stay, give any reason ,they can sum up even hanging up the phone...

Im finding it bloody hard dont get me wrong i do almost have a day job im still quite a bit short for a full months work but its all about finding the good people.and i have only been here 4 months so i guess im doing ok, just no where near what i thought i would.

up north the day rate might have been half per man but if i pick up 5 custies for a total of £25 £5 each i know they are gona stay with me forever, if i pick up 1 here for £25 , its uncertain after the 1st clean.

Maybe its cos i have started from scratch , most of the problems have come from canvassed work , the ones i have taken on from my canvassing seem ok but there is alot of customers that i have walked away from at the door when i was personally canvassing as they didnt seem sure, i guess that these are the customers that the professional canvassers encourage
and thats why im getting problems maybe the canvasser told them to get the 1st clean then you can choose. i say on the door its REGULAR if i see any sign of negativity i walk away, the canvasser will try and make a sale,

Im still finding it hard, to crack the over all mentality i now give an information pack to all new custies , then call to confirm once they have read it it clearly states no one cleans etc.

in the north east you would have an amount to clean per month, and your only job would be cleaning it.

In london its all gates locked,alot of p takers one cleans then sacked ...they want to be in for the same price they want a bloody time,ofc i dont take on such customers but i must have turned down £500 per month that want a bloody Time and Date each clean....its crazy.

Oh and if anyone is up north and a bit peed of with (come back on monday if ya want paid lad) pls dont be because the grass is not always greener.

believe me I miss my Bad payers thats what window cleaning in london has got me to. come back next time is alot better then a customer forgetting to unlock her gate then texting me saying sorry i forgot but you must come back to clean my back before i can pay you when can you do this? in the north they pay for front no phone calls no nothing. if they in they in if out they out easy.

well i dont want to give up is there anyone one from london thats got a full months work here? , or maybe someone out there with enof work for 2 people? thats my short term aim.the areas i work in and targeting are Middlesex and Surrey,but any advice from any window cleaner in or around London would be fantastic.

Dont get me wrong when its good here its great but when its bad its Baaaaaddd

thanks for reading!

[the bfg]

best advice I can give is move up north chief you know it makes sense

[Paul Coleman]

These people just dont have a clue as to how a window cleaner makes a living!

When i was up north earlier in the year i had an easy smooth business and i come to think of it i was happy.

However after hearing the good sides about window cleaning in london Ie:, Higher Rate per man, i Sold up and moved back home to london where i am from i always wanted to go back at some point i thought i might as well now.

I picked up a few customers some myself some with canvasers and indeed it was amazing seemed like everything was an improvement , much higher hourly rate., people paying easy, i was also happy cos i was treated nicely like any other tradesman , which was odd for me cos up north they it seems hard for customers to take you seriously i guess part of it is because a house would be £4.00 average. and in that part of london where i got my 1st work it was £45.00.

SO... i started expanding and MY GOD, i found out getting a good customer is like a bloody lottery you see SO many Dirty windows and so many just dont want a window cleaner, they dont care , and i am only knocking on private homes , the ones that want a window cleaner seem to want me to clean on days when they are at home , jesus christ i say to them , its only £20 every 8 weeks cos it fits into my route....and then they are like Oh,,,,, Right ,,,,,we will leave it then,, so i say please try calling an appointment window cleaner most will charge £50ish for what i do for £20, they are like , oh right ok lets forget it..

I have some customers that refuse to have the 2nd clean even. stating that i did not make them aware enof that its only a regular service they had the impression they can cancel anytime.now i think i am scaring good customers away im talking to much about regular cleaning they get worried and say let me call you....
again in the north it would be like this "Knock Knock" Hi window cleaner etc £5.00 a month yes or no , If yes great, End off , i dont go into agreements i do here as i have been stung many a time.

They simply Text me at midnight (pls dont clean windows anymore etc) this particular person owes i said EEEEEHHHH? you do know you owe me for last time too? he says , you have no written contract with me so p off, i said we had a verbal agreement? he doesnt respond.

I find it here very anoying , when i talk to a customer explaining for 30 mins THIS IS NOT A ONE OFF CLEAN OK? that is what i am forced to say these days cos of my bad experiences they say ok , once the dirt from 5 years back is off they dont stay, give any reason ,they can sum up even hanging up the phone...

Im finding it bloody hard dont get me wrong i do almost have a day job im still quite a bit short for a full months work but its all about finding the good people.and i have only been here 4 months so i guess im doing ok, just no where near what i thought i would.

up north the day rate might have been half per man but if i pick up 5 custies for a total of £25 £5 each i know they are gona stay with me forever, if i pick up 1 here for £25 , its uncertain after the 1st clean.

Maybe its cos i have started from scratch , most of the problems have come from canvassed work , the ones i have taken on from my canvassing seem ok but there is alot of customers that i have walked away from at the door when i was personally canvassing as they didnt seem sure, i guess that these are the customers that the professional canvassers encourage
and thats why im getting problems maybe the canvasser told them to get the 1st clean then you can choose. i say on the door its REGULAR if i see any sign of negativity i walk away, the canvasser will try and make a sale,

Im still finding it hard, to crack the over all mentality i now give an information pack to all new custies , then call to confirm once they have read it it clearly states no one cleans etc.

in the north east you would have an amount to clean per month, and your only job would be cleaning it.

In london its all gates locked,alot of p takers one cleans then sacked ...they want to be in for the same price they want a bloody time,ofc i dont take on such customers but i must have turned down £500 per month that want a bloody Time and Date each clean....its crazy.

Oh and if anyone is up north and a bit peed of with (come back on monday if ya want paid lad) pls dont be because the grass is not always greener.

believe me I miss my Bad payers thats what window cleaning in london has got me to. come back next time is alot better then a customer forgetting to unlock her gate then texting me saying sorry i forgot but you must come back to clean my back before i can pay you when can you do this? in the north they pay for front no phone calls no nothing. if they in they in if out they out easy.

well i dont want to give up is there anyone one from london thats got a full months work here? , or maybe someone out there with enof work for 2 people? thats my short term aim.the areas i work in and targeting are Middlesex and Surrey,but any advice from any window cleaner in or around London would be fantastic.

Dont get me wrong when its good here its great but when its bad its Baaaaaddd

thanks for reading!

Not in London myself but about 20+ miles outside.
Yes, some people do try for an appointment system.  I won't do it though except for a couple of large places that have locked front gates.  I'm even reluctant to take on work where they want to be notified the day before to leave a gate unlocked - though I do have a very few jobs like this.
Micro management costs money.  More importantly, it also can cause hassle for my head.  It's possible to get away with a small number of pre-notified jobs but I certainly would not want that to be the norm.  For starters, if you have to pre-notify most of the customers, you end up having to guess how much work you will be getting through on a given day.  You may feel like finishing a bit earlier but can't.  You lose the precious bit of freedom that this business can give you.  You hand control of your business over to the customers.  You may end up finishing earlier than you want to because you have estimated the times wrong.
It might work if you only have one appointment on a given day if you can do that job first thing and the job is large enough to justify it.
As I said in a previous thread.  I have very little work that requires pre-notifying.  That is not an accident.  It has come about through years of filtering.  It has sometimes meant me passing on a better job but I would rather have a bit of freedom than hassle for my head (probably why I never married anyone) 

[DavidWright76]

I'm in London, started setting up a local round last week by posting leaflets and i'm up to my 15th customer... NOT BRAGGING!

[darren clarke]

i have read and read your post and to me you seem arrogent to the point that the custy should be begging you to do there windows,  if all the custy are saying no thanks after 1 clean  then it is either the canvessor is lying to them or you are too expensive and they just want them clean and that will do for 6 months,

is someone wants and appointment then give it to them, lots of big companys do it,   just book it in first thing or work around it, if i was getting £20 a house and it was all appointment i would love it,   them might of been ripped off in the past by wc and dont trust you,  plus a lot want to make sure the job gets done,  i got a few my self where they like to be there, so what, it is there property

i think this business is great, but there is a lot who think they are something special and seem to forget we are in a customer service business and can be dropped in a sec and there isnt a thing you can do about it

[Londoner]

Where abouts are you in london? that makes a big difference. I get all the same stuff you get but you filter it out and eventually come down to a solid core of good customers. You have to sort the good apples from the bad apples.

You have to work to appointments too, its just the way it is. Its what they expect. If you want to be treated like a proper tradesman you have to act like one.

A lot of london is populated by foreigners who don't have the same concept of window cleaning as we do.

[Paul Coleman]

i have read and read your post and to me you seem arrogent to the point that the custy should be begging you to do there windows,  if all the custy are saying no thanks after 1 clean  then it is either the canvessor is lying to them or you are too expensive and they just want them clean and that will do for 6 months,

is someone wants and appointment then give it to them, lots of big companys do it,   just book it in first thing or work around it, if i was getting £20 a house and it was all appointment i would love it,   them might of been ripped off in the past by wc and dont trust you,  plus a lot want to make sure the job gets done,  i got a few my self where they like to be there, so what, it is there property

i think this business is great, but there is a lot who think they are something special and seem to forget we are in a customer service business and can be dropped in a sec and there isnt a thing you can do about it

The odd appointment can be worked around, as you say, especially if you make so that it's the first call and you can do it on a day when it doesn't increase travel too much.  But to run a large chunk of the business that way is unviable unless charging much higher rates.  That's what I found anyway.  As you say it is a customer service business but than can fall down when a particular service requires so much micro management that it either (a) decreases the profitability or (b) causes excess stress to work around individual requirements.
I think that people find their way into window cleaning for a variety of reasons and the order of importance varies from one w/c to another.  I suspect that reduced stress levels may be higher up the league table for me than most which is why I try to avoid too much appointment/pre-arranged work.  When someone has wanted this, I sometimes offer them a Sunday clean.  I have to do some commercial jobs on a Sunday when no-one is around so it can be possible to fit in with that.  If it definitely isn't possible to work a customer into my round, I sometimes offer a one-off so that at least they can get their windows clean.  Also, I sometimes am able to pass a job on to someone else who is able to accommodate them better than I.
IMO there's nothing wrong with turning a job away because it isn't particularly profitable or it will cause undue stress trying to work around it.

[bobby p]

i would go along with their set time/appointment idea for the VERY FIRST CLEAN/2nd ONLY. once they trust you,you might have to pander to their wishes for a while ,but then you can start to  hurdle the gate or whatever - on that first clean explain that the rain can often unsettle your diary (use the sympathy vote)

 i have a pole with a pair of small scissors jammed sideaways into the end,this is great for unlatching bottom drawbolts

 be sure to draw the bolts back as u leave , this is usually easier to do than the opening was

[Paul Coleman]

i would go along with their set time/appointment idea for the VERY FIRST CLEAN ONLY. once they trust you,you might have to pander to their wishes for a while ,but then you can start to  hurdle the gate or whatever - on that first clean explain that the rain can often unsettle your diary (use the sympathy vote)

 i have a pole with a pair of small scissors jammed sideaways into the end,this is great for unlatching bottom drawbolts

I carry a crowbar myself for hooking around bolts (from up a stepladder).  It doesn't reach the very bottom ones though.  I used to use a claw hammer but more bolts are reachable with a crowbar.  I must admit that carrying a crowbar for some jobs wouldn't look so good if someone saw me who didn't know what was going on 

[bobby p]

another tip is if a house is very security conscious,with crazy high fences or gates ,make an effort in the early days to get the neighbouring house as a customer-as it is easy to climb over from there

even if you cant get the neighbour as a customer you can get them as a friend ,so you can access the first house from their garden !

[roundbuilder]

it all depends wwhere in london you are. Im in s e london and have found it a good area to build. The more central and posh you get will result in it being harder however i always thought thats where the cream custies are. Anyway i do wish you all the best and hope things get better.

[lee09]

i would go along with their set time/appointment idea for the VERY FIRST CLEAN ONLY. once they trust you,you might have to pander to their wishes for a while ,but then you can start to  hurdle the gate or whatever - on that first clean explain that the rain can often unsettle your diary (use the sympathy vote)

 i have a pole with a pair of small scissors jammed sideaways into the end,this is great for unlatching bottom drawbolts

I carry a crowbar myself for hooking around bolts (from up a stepladder).  It doesn't reach the very bottom ones though.  I used to use a claw hammer but more bolts are reachable with a crowbar.  I must admit that carrying a crowbar for some jobs wouldn't look so good if someone saw me who didn't know what was going on 

Paul,
I carry a broom stale with a screw at the bottom of it. It manipulates all my bolts without me looking like I'm tooled up
Lee

[AuRavelling79]

Lee09 - I've made up something like that but with a weight at the end so that you can tap stiff bolts in and out.

Sometimes you find that you can tap a bolt open but that because the gate wood is swollen you can't get it back in place and so on my payment slip I put that I've only managed to put the top bolt back and not the bottom, one. (Or whatever)

[Matthew JN]

Just keep the loyal decent residential customers that you have and go commercial - use your non cleaning days to get on the phone and do some cold calling.

Constantly canvassing and doing residential first cleans = alot of time and hassle for not that much profit.

[supernova77]

These people just dont have a clue as to how a window cleaner makes a living!

When i was up north earlier in the year i had an easy smooth business and i come to think of it i was happy.

However after hearing the good sides about window cleaning in london Ie:, Higher Rate per man, i Sold up and moved back home to london where i am from i always wanted to go back at some point i thought i might as well now.

I picked up a few customers some myself some with canvasers and indeed it was amazing seemed like everything was an improvement , much higher hourly rate., people paying easy, i was also happy cos i was treated nicely like any other tradesman , which was odd for me cos up north they it seems hard for customers to take you seriously i guess part of it is because a house would be £4.00 average. and in that part of london where i got my 1st work it was £45.00.

SO... i started expanding and MY GOD, i found out getting a good customer is like a bloody lottery you see SO many Dirty windows and so many just dont want a window cleaner, they dont care , and i am only knocking on private homes , the ones that want a window cleaner seem to want me to clean on days when they are at home , jesus christ i say to them , its only £20 every 8 weeks cos it fits into my route....and then they are like Oh,,,,, Right ,,,,,we will leave it then,, so i say please try calling an appointment window cleaner most will charge £50ish for what i do for £20, they are like , oh right ok lets forget it..

I have some customers that refuse to have the 2nd clean even. stating that i did not make them aware enof that its only a regular service they had the impression they can cancel anytime.now i think i am scaring good customers away im talking to much about regular cleaning they get worried and say let me call you....
again in the north it would be like this "Knock Knock" Hi window cleaner etc £5.00 a month yes or no , If yes great, End off , i dont go into agreements i do here as i have been stung many a time.

They simply Text me at midnight (pls dont clean windows anymore etc) this particular person owes i said EEEEEHHHH? you do know you owe me for last time too? he says , you have no written contract with me so p off, i said we had a verbal agreement? he doesnt respond.

I find it here very anoying , when i talk to a customer explaining for 30 mins THIS IS NOT A ONE OFF CLEAN OK? that is what i am forced to say these days cos of my bad experiences they say ok , once the dirt from 5 years back is off they dont stay, give any reason ,they can sum up even hanging up the phone...

Im finding it bloody hard dont get me wrong i do almost have a day job im still quite a bit short for a full months work but its all about finding the good people.and i have only been here 4 months so i guess im doing ok, just no where near what i thought i would.

up north the day rate might have been half per man but if i pick up 5 custies for a total of £25 £5 each i know they are gona stay with me forever, if i pick up 1 here for £25 , its uncertain after the 1st clean.

Maybe its cos i have started from scratch , most of the problems have come from canvassed work , the ones i have taken on from my canvassing seem ok but there is alot of customers that i have walked away from at the door when i was personally canvassing as they didnt seem sure, i guess that these are the customers that the professional canvassers encourage
and thats why im getting problems maybe the canvasser told them to get the 1st clean then you can choose. i say on the door its REGULAR if i see any sign of negativity i walk away, the canvasser will try and make a sale,

Im still finding it hard, to crack the over all mentality i now give an information pack to all new custies , then call to confirm once they have read it it clearly states no one cleans etc.

in the north east you would have an amount to clean per month, and your only job would be cleaning it.

In london its all gates locked,alot of p takers one cleans then sacked ...they want to be in for the same price they want a bloody time,ofc i dont take on such customers but i must have turned down £500 per month that want a bloody Time and Date each clean....its crazy.

Oh and if anyone is up north and a bit peed of with (come back on monday if ya want paid lad) pls dont be because the grass is not always greener.

believe me I miss my Bad payers thats what window cleaning in london has got me to. come back next time is alot better then a customer forgetting to unlock her gate then texting me saying sorry i forgot but you must come back to clean my back before i can pay you when can you do this?Huh in the north they pay for front no phone calls no nothing. if they in they in if out they out easy.

well i dont want to give up is there anyone one from london thats got a full months work here? , or maybe someone out there with enof work for 2 people? thats my short term aim.the areas i work in and targeting are Middlesex and Surrey,but any advice from any window cleaner in or around London would be fantastic.

Dont get me wrong when its good here its great but when its bad its Baaaaaddd

thanks for reading!

I mean no offence, but if you are loosing customers straight after the first clean - could it be that they are not happy with the results?

Andy

[Londoner]

You have to realise that if you are going to work London you are in an upmarket service industry and these people pay for service. I have cleaned  for multi-millionaires and they are so far up their own jacksie you want to hit them but they pay big money if you want to get into that end of the market then go for it.

 You have to realise practically every house within the London postcodes now (give or take) is going to be worth over a million pounds and it give you some idea of the calibre of customer you are going to be dealing with.
I have customers in private roads on gated estates. Gradually getting rid of them because I don't like that kind of work. But the smell of money is very strong. If you want to play in that league you can't do it with North Country working practices, a cloth cap and a whippet.

The idea of knocking the bolt off a gate with a broomhandle indicates that some people on here have no idea of the level of security employed by some of these customers.   

[Crystal-clear]

i can see what you mean i guess its totally different here then up there.

By the way Darren if you think you would be happy with a days work of £20 houses by time and date i invite you down here for just half a day! you must see what its like.....you said you will be happy as the price is good but when you leave you will never wana come back! lol

Oh great can you come at 12pm answer ok.
Oh great can you come at 12 pm , answer= hmm i dont think so , how about 1pm
Ah i think we will be out by 12.45

Your whole days work ask for 1 time you cant be everywhere. alot of people agree with me on this £20 appointments £45 appointments which ever they are
they are no good mate.

Andy work is very good i even trad the bottems 1st time round to make sure the thick dirt is out.

i think the canvasser over priced or did not do his job properly also like others have said people from different parts of the world, dont have the mentality

and to go back on the appointments thing just now i have called 14 customers for monday ,guess what. 5 not answering phone not calling back , so what happens now? do i go and clean the front? = risk upseting a cutomer do i not clean the house= risk upseting a cusotmer its crap im sorry guys who ever saying just call or give them times etc it just doesnt work , looks like my earnings will be cut down on monday that is not the way im used to work.


By the way £20 for a 3-4 bedroom house might sound good, but there is alot of driving time traffic parking, u dont normally get 5 in a row like you do up north.

when i first got here i was like OMG £20, i was shaking lol i used to charge like £6.00 but then i learned why

[gewindows]

How long have you been down there in London?

[Crystal-clear]

window cleaning wise only 3-4 months in london,  was born here and grew up here thou

[niceandclean]

CC
Maybe you need to target private estate houses, and leave the bigger individual houses alone?
I contact all customers the night before, and normally after meeting the customers on the first or maybe second cleans, we get given entry codes, padlock codes ect, but they still get a call or text to let them know we will be turning up. I also agree with what Vince has said, maybe you need to decide what you want, you cant have your cake and eat it!