[Ian Gourlay]

I think I am correct in saying that if you so a Word Processing course at the local College you do not have to pay VAT.  Plumming etc

The Government wants to improve the skill base so there should be no VAT on training at all.

The NCCA says its talks to Government  its the kind of issue they should be lobbying hard on

[Musicman]

Since when has this Government listened to anybody???

Have you got issues with the NCCA Ian?

[Ian Gourlay]

No.

Its just one example of how the NCCA could be proactive. I will leave them alone from now on.


But perhaps its only cleaners who are not VAT registered this affects.

I seem to recall the Government listen to the Fuel Lobby in 2001 this is why there has been no increase in duty since.

[Karl Wildey]

Interesting point Ian, but it probably has more to do with the VAT laws than the government. Let me give you another example.
If you rent a garage from a council, and you are a council tenant you do not pay VAT, if you are not a council tenant you do pay VAT. Same garage being rented, but from different people. The college is a place of education tried to the local council/government, the NCCA is a business.

[Len Gribble]

Ian

Could be wrong

Businesses/trainers that are vat registered have to charge vat or bear the cost them selves, but still must declare it to the students as they may also be vat register so they can claim it back, one for the accountants.

Government training bodies are probably exempt? Don’t think our skills/training coming to play with them.

Len

[Ian Gourlay]

The thought only occured tome the other day.

As from time to time I have contact with Ministers I think i will use my political connections and try and find out the reasoning.

I see no reason why a supplier who is VAT registered cant be zero rated for Training.


When I was in the retail trade we had a multitude of VAT codes.

For instance books are zero rated as they are educational.

Porn Mags are also Zero Rated.

[Musicman]

Ian, I applaud your efforts to find out more about the VAT on training and I wish you well with that.

I believe that the best way to effect change is to do so from within so can I suggest that you join the NCCA as you are not a member, then you may be able to influence how they work rather than take pot-shots from the sidelines. Is it a moderator thing to do this as Doug seems to be making a hobby of it?

I have to take you to task with your other comment:

I seem to recall the Government listen to the Fuel Lobby in 2001 this is why there has been no increase in duty since.

I trust that you are simply the victim of Government spin when stating this rather than deliberately mislead us. Isn't it an amazing coincidence that 2001 was an election year, and that there were threats of repeats of the blockades in 2000!!!!

To correct you there have been increases in fuel duty since 2000, however it has been frozen since 2003. Do you think that this may have something to do with the rising price in fuel that nets the Government increasing amounts of duty anyway?

Incidentally, you may wish to know that the average price of a litre of unleaded petrol when Labour got elected was 55.8 pence!!

To avoid the Government having to listen to the people through similar demonstrations The Civil Contingencies Act was introduced in 2004. Therefore any repetition of such blockades now would allow police to use their new powers  to break up protests and arrest demonstrators, as they would have reason to believe the country's fuel supply was under threat. But I'm sure you knew this already.

On the positive side, this legislation does not prevent truckmount owners from blockading their local Customs and Excise office in an attempt to remove VAT from training. But maybe they should wait until the next election year!!!!

[Doug Holloway]

Musicman,

One of the problems of responding to your comments is that you hide under a cloak of anonymity so I don't know what if any angle you are coming from.

As regards my views on expanding representation within the CC industry , they have certainly not changed since I began moderating.

On a more positive note I try to stimulate discussion within the industry as surely this is the best way to move forward,

Cheers,

doug

[garyj]

I don't think this issue is even worth bothering with, if I was going to lobby an MP there are far, far better and more worthwhile causes than an extra £17.50 per hundred quid spent on training. Over a 10 year period how much training do we all go on, even if you spent £1000 its only an extra £175.00.

We get shafted every single day of our lives no matter who is in power, Ian is way off the mark with his idea on petrol, its nearly doubled in 5 years, the Government makes more in tax with every increase, they have no interest when the barrel price goes up because they make more revenue from it.

Ian, please, next time you see a minister don't bother with this, I'm sure you can think of better issues to raise and anyway, you'll be wasting your breath not one of them listens or cares.

Why all the hostility towards the NCCA at the moment, could it be related to your recent Ebay find? And what happened to your tagline advertising it?

 

[Musicman]

Doug, I personally am not coming from any angle and have no axe to grind, although I think that others have...

I just don't like people making false claims.

Wouldn't you dispute something that you knew wasn't true?

The anonymity thing has been done to death.

What difference would it make to my comments?

I feel that subliminally you are trying to undermine my comments - hence your term 'hide behind a cloak of anonymity' rather than use the phrase 'prefer to remain anonymous'.

I also agree with Garyj that there are better things to lobby MP's with (not that they'd listen).

[Doug Holloway]

Musicman,

I don't want ot get involved in an argument.

I only point out that anoymous contributors are harder to place as one does not know if they are suppliers,closely linked with suppliers,franchisees,franchisors ,company employees or self employed cleaning contractors.

This obviously has different relevances to different topics.

Cheers,

Doug

[Karl Wildey]

How much was petrol when Liberal where in power, maybe we should get them back it, it was loads cheaper then,
Or do things actually rise with time.
How long have labour been in now?

[garyj]

The last time The Liberals were in power petrol was much cheaper with the government  of the day taxing it at just 24%. The average cost for the year was 25.5d per gallon and the year was 1915.  :

Labour have been in far to long 


Bit of a cheap shot at Musicman, a man of great knowledge and a true Cleanitup God. In this case Doug's argument has no grounds. Keep posting Musicman, whoever you are.

[Ian Gourlay]

Garry,

I have no hostility towards the NCCA. I have a great deal of resoect for Derek, Paul, Ken , etc.

However there are certain issues  such as entry rules that  I believe we were told they were going to address which  hopefully would have opened up membership to a wider cross section of Carpet Cleaners.

Why have I renoved the tag line.

Because it would make it look like I was advertising the new organization. Although perhaps compettion could be a good thing.


If coming up with suggestions on what the industry could do is hostility to an organization well.


Musicman,

Maybee I was wrong with the date, but I can asure you the Government did listen.

I was one of those across the nation, who had to report to directly to John Prestcot and Gordon Brown on the extent of public feeling.
Through my telephone surveys etc.

Two days latter the freeze or was it reduction was announced. Cant remember as I have moved on.

I am sorry if you do not  agree with my politics but its a free Country.

Ps It looks like this has been turned into a political debate which was not my intention.

Regards

Ian

[Karl Wildey]

I love these political debates, It always amazes me how short people memories are. Lets slag of labour and bring the tories back, cos they have an excellent record, yeah right.
Last remark... for now.