[Window Washers]

Hiya Ian mate
Thank you for ya post man......ya sound dude

justin what is the waste to pure ratio ?

Not to sure man,i was in the middle ov sorting it out when i first got system & asked gap's the correct ratio....they said dont realy matter!!!!  get your tds low as possible & the membrain will be the happiest,when it's producing the lowest tds....so i went with that mate....got it to 14ppm......i'm missing that figure ian man

I would be questioning the membrane it should last more than a couple of months even if you was shooting high tds into it.

I have phoned gaps ,but they say its because i havent flushed softner beads out enough.....only had it on system few weeks...surely carnt be that?? mind you mate tds was only 20 @ the time i phoned them & i took softner straight off then & its now 35 ishso probaly blame me for damage & fob me off man.....left a message anyway

if you anywhere near me bring your gear over and we can bang heads together and sort problem.

I'm in hartlepool ian mate.....thank you tho bud for the offer man...ya some guy dude

these low pressure membranes are all well and good if they last if not a booster pump and normal one can save a shed load of hassle.

Thought it was to good to be true....low psi & no booster pump....high tds, hard water

Starting to look like ya might be right bud

Thank you for ya time ian mate.....
system left now....havent got a clue wot to do for next week's water man
looks like bag ov resin a week @ the minute mate

Kindest regards & take care mate....& thanx fella
Justin

I would be asking for a replacement of membrane, for them to say as low tds as possible they are selling not helping water costs money, ask them for a new membrane m8 I would be kicking off by now, give them the option and post back, they could have a dodgy batch of membranes it hapens

[SPE]

Ian makes a good point Justin.
Otherwise, do you have friends or family with a higher psi on their supply that you could take your ro to and give it a try ? If you do and it improves, least then you know its a pump you need.
Hope you get it sorted
Simon

[C-N-C]

morning, Ian mate

I would be asking for a replacement of membrane, for them to say as low tds as possible they are selling not helping water costs money, ask them for a new membrane m8 I would be kicking off by now, give them the option and post back, they could have a dodgy batch of membranes it hapens
   

Yep!  yeah right mate...i wanna be asking them for a replacement,even if they tested it etc...
I have never known anyone to say that like bud,dont matter about ratio...
I'v phoned them yesterday...must ov bin closed,just the answer machine,i have left a message....unless they bin reading this thread & expecting me to call.....LOL
im going to have to fill tank etc with the 35 ppm to keep me going for a bit anyway & phone them first thing monday man

Thank you ian for ya help fella
I will post as soon as i speak to them monday,unless i can get a answer today!!!

Take care mate & kindest regards.....ya sound bud
Justin 


Hiya simon mate

Ian makes a good point Justin.
Otherwise, do you have friends or family with a higher psi on their supply that you could take your ro to and give it a try ? If you do and it improves, least then you know its a pump you need.
Hope you get it sorted
Simon

Yes,he's right man,in he!!!
i dont even know the psi ov anyone of my freinds or family man....
I think i might just wait until monday & fill tank with the 35ppm for now...probaly higher now...LOL
I have got a FULL, unopened bag ov resin on stand by simon mate.....just to polish it off to 000

Anyway i will post as soon as i hear out mate.......thank you dude

Hey big "THANK YOU" guy's for taking the time out to post....big up you guy's

Take care & kindest regards
Justin

[C-N-C]

Just had mail back from gaps-goes bit like this-



The one constant with all reverse osmosis membranes is that they are never
"faulty" it is always something to do with how being run so we just need to
get to the bottom of where you are going wrong but it may even be something
as simple as the water board dropping your pressure - I'll have a better
idea when you give us more information."

HMMMMM......never faulty ,eh!!

Iv sent all info & i will wait to see wot there reply is,let ya know guy's soon as i know

Take care
Justin

[C-N-C]

Hiya guy's
Well here it is,the reason why my new "low pressure" 40/40 HF5 is producing HIGH tds-
This the reason from GAP'S.....
My water psi to low..........EH!!! i thought this system was made for this??
I might have to add a booster pump now...can you belive it guy's on a low pressure system

FROM GAPS-

Well this is an easy one - your pressure is very low - at 40 psi the average
membrane will reject about 90% which would give you a tds of 52 ppm from 520
ppm at the tap so to get 33 ppm from 22 psi is actually very good - your
membrane is exceeding expectations.  Your product flow rate is quite low and
you only have a total of about 4 litres per minute passing through the
membrane so not only is your pressure exceptionally low so is your feed flow
rate...

You are pretty much running at the minimum pressure now - we couldn't
guarantee the performance with a pump as it depends on the pump and what you
are putting into the pump.   If you already have a pump from your merlin
there would be no harm in trying it short term to see how it improves tds
and flow.

The only other thing I can think of is to change the carbon block for a GAC
filter - these are not as effective at removing chlorine but there is less
pressure drop across it so it will give you a few more psi to improve the
tds.



So let this be a warning to any of you guy's with low psi...........ya still need high psi...even with a low pressure ro......if that makes sense......
I think it should be made clear about this, as i have spent a lot of time & money on this "low pressure" system to be told,MY PRESSURE TO LOW.....EH

UNBELIVEABLE.....i feel like i'v bin had guy's...... :

Thank you to ALL you guy's who bin postin & helping out were they can.......i appreciate it fella's.....YA SOUND

Take care all & kindest regards
Justin
www.clean-n-clearwindows.co.uk

[dd]

Sorry Justin but it does make sense that 20psi is not good for your performance.

I favour the 300gpd RO units because the water qaulity is just as good as from a 4040 unit. To me the advantage is as they produce water more slowly if you need to use a booster pump the flow rate (actual volume of water as opposed to psi) is not likey to be a problem.

300gpd RO is generally more than adequate for 1 man used with static system.

Good luck and best wishes, dd

[C-N-C]

Hiya DD mate..
Yeah,i know mate......
I knew it was to good to be true man...low psi...high tds........
Was never gunna work
Be intresting to c if anyone elese got  low psi with a 40/40 low pressure membrane & high tds....to see what result's they get
I was gunna buy a pump to push psi up a bit,when i asked GAP'S....they replied-

Under these circumstances we are reluctant
to recommend a pump as we are likely to be held accountable by yourselves
even though we will not be selling the pump. 

I think they got the hump...not a pump mate

All because i said this to them-

Also if the GAC filter will give less pressure drop,to improve the tds,wont
a booster pump do the same job, as that is improving psi ?
We think,maybe, they should be some kind of warning or minimum running psi
made clear before anyone invests & spends a lot of money,on this system.

WHAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO ME BUD
They should make it clear the minimum pressure to use...as you pay MORE for a HF5 "low pressure" system : : : : :
Just wish i'd gone for the normal RO system mate......
Gunna post summit dd man,just to warn other folk with a low psi about this 40/40 RO...........

Thank you for your post dd & kind word's dude

Take care man

Justin

[dd]

I am not an expert but GAPS might think that even with a booster pump your flow rate will be too low (actual volume of water being pushed through membrane) to improve performance much. Probably worth talking to someone who knows more than me. (Thats why I prefer 300gpd unit as they require lower flow rate).

Good luck Justin

[C-N-C]

Hiya dd mate...
I think that's wot they are getting @......but no one informed me before i bought it man
I mean...why is it a low pressure membrane dd mate???
There's summit i'm missing here bud
I thought it would expel the need for a booster pump in low psi area's!!
it's Got my head up my backside dude

Wish i'd talked to someone who know's the score with membrane's before i bought it man : : : :

Lot of folk reccomended this tho bud!!!!

Thank you again DD mate...ya sound man

Kindest regards
Justin

[C-N-C]

Hiya guy's

So Now what!!! ???anyone know what i can do?

TDS higher now 37ppm & riseing

So a booster pump would probaly not work......so who uses these 40/40 system's??

& how do i get best performance from this system i'v bought,with a low tap pressure

100% cannot belive this fella's

Any help much appreciated......

Thank you & kind regards
Justin

[C-N-C]

Hiya ian mate......
Good to hear from ya man
Tried that,saying must be a faulty membrane,is all i got was "The one constant with all reverse osmosis membranes is that they are never
"faulty" it is always something to do with how being run"

Also " I think it unfair to blame our company when under the circumstances the
equipment is coping very well.  The fact that it used to be better can be
due to two things either your feed pressure has dropped or you damaged your
membranes when incorrectly using a water softener but going off your figures
it looks more likely that your pressure has dropped in either scenario we
can hardly be held accountable.  Under these circumstances we are reluctant
to recommend a pump as we are likely to be held accountable by yourselves
even though we will not be selling the pump. 
Yeah,right :
Dont think they gunna do out mate...being fobbed off by GAPS........
£700, i spent in 2 minutes ian mate & they not intrested man
Got me coin now bud,havent they
I added softner man,just for a couple of weeks...it's been off system for a few week's now mate....& i will get a booster pump ian......
Cannot belive that...they tell me to get a GAC filter instead ov carbon as it will let more water through & raise psi.....wont a booster pump do that...... :
When i said that they never answered back man.....
Strange man...what can i do if they refuse to replace membrane ian??? probaly nawt man

Will keep posting fella with updates....LOL
So ian...you think even with this low psi the system should be working better???

Thank you again for ya post's man & ya help mate

Take care man & kindest regards
Justin

[Window Washers]

Hiya ian mate......
Good to hear from ya man
Tried that,saying must be a faulty membrane,is all i got was "The one constant with all reverse osmosis membranes is that they are never
"faulty" it is always something to do with how being run"

Also " I think it unfair to blame our company when under the circumstances the
equipment is coping very well.  The fact that it used to be better can be
due to two things either your feed pressure has dropped or you damaged your
membranes when incorrectly using a water softener but going off your figures
it looks more likely that your pressure has dropped in either scenario we
can hardly be held accountable.  Under these circumstances we are reluctant
to recommend a pump as we are likely to be held accountable by yourselves
even though we will not be selling the pump. 
Yeah,right :
Dont think they gunna do out mate...being fobbed off by GAPS........
£700, i spent in 2 minutes ian mate & they not intrested man
Got me coin now bud,havent they
I added softner man,just for a couple of weeks...it's been off system for a few week's now mate....& i will get a booster pump ian......
Cannot belive that...they tell me to get a GAC filter instead ov carbon as it will let more water through & raise psi.....wont a booster pump do that...... :
When i said that they never answered back man.....
Strange man...what can i do if they refuse to replace membrane ian??? probaly nawt man

Will keep posting fella with updates....LOL
So ian...you think even with this low psi the system should be working better???

Thank you again for ya post's man & ya help mate

Take care man & kindest regards
Justin

Justin I am just reading over the post quick, but if (I will under line IF) item is not working as said and is not fit for purpuse I would state my rights as a consumer, and give them a simple choice play ball and sort it, or play hard ball and it will cost them, now I cant say what I would do as I have not read in detail every post and problem you have had, I read snip its and post from them. I would be well p'd should I have been sold something that is not working correctly, more so if said person said about a softner. give me a call tomorrow if you want and can try and help either way.

Ian

[craig21t]

If you look at the picture I have attached you can see the basic specs of the hf5 membrane family. You are running exceptionally low water pressure and possibly flow. Optimum pressure for the hf5 family of membranes is 80psi plus so you are well below this. If you install a booster pump to increase the pressure this will help, but if your flow rate is low you may induce cavitation in your pipework. Really speaking you should install a break tank in this case. Personally I would contact your waterboard about the problem of your low pressure/flow as they may be able to help as it is exceptionally low. Ro membranes rely on pressure, not just to make water but to dispense of waste products during operation. Your tds reading will continue to rise while you use the ro because you do not have sufficient water pressure/flow and the membrane element cannot cope with this. In practise most people do not have 80+psi from their tap, but the hf5 membranes have a much better chance of working at low pressures than some of the other membrane families. The hf5 will happily work on tap pressures of 45psi + with regular flushing, but life of the membrane would be reduced at this pressure. If you stated to the company that you bought the system off, the water pressure you had and they suggested this membrane then you may have a case, but if you just said you have low water pressure you may not.  My personal suggestion would be either buy a smaller ro unit, like a 300 or 450gpd that runs 1/4" pipework and run a booster pump designed for that ro, or get a high flow/pressure pump but you would probably need to install a break tank. Hope this helps.

[dd]

80psi is actually quite high pressure. My 300gpd unit reduces tds from 200 to 004 with 55psi.

I think the case would hinge on whether Justin told Gaps about his low pressure problems and whether they gave him unrealistic expectations when making the sale.

Having a break/resevoir tank is an option but i am guessing it would have to be a large one, 1000 litres or more to keep up with the supply needed for the RO.

[C-N-C]

Hiya ian mate......
Good to hear from ya man
Tried that,saying must be a faulty membrane,is all i got was "The one constant with all reverse osmosis membranes is that they are never
"faulty" it is always something to do with how being run"

Also " I think it unfair to blame our company when under the circumstances the
equipment is coping very well.  The fact that it used to be better can be
due to two things either your feed pressure has dropped or you damaged your
membranes when incorrectly using a water softener but going off your figures
it looks more likely that your pressure has dropped in either scenario we
can hardly be held accountable.  Under these circumstances we are reluctant
to recommend a pump as we are likely to be held accountable by yourselves
even though we will not be selling the pump. 
Yeah,right :
Dont think they gunna do out mate...being fobbed off by GAPS........
£700, i spent in 2 minutes ian mate & they not intrested man
Got me coin now bud,havent they
I added softner man,just for a couple of weeks...it's been off system for a few week's now mate....& i will get a booster pump ian......
Cannot belive that...they tell me to get a GAC filter instead ov carbon as it will let more water through & raise psi.....wont a booster pump do that...... :
When i said that they never answered back man.....
Strange man...what can i do if they refuse to replace membrane ian??? probaly nawt man

Will keep posting fella with updates....LOL
So ian...you think even with this low psi the system should be working better???

Thank you again for ya post's man & ya help mate

Take care man & kindest regards
Justin

Justin I am just reading over the post quick, but if (I will under line IF) item is not working as said and is not fit for purpuse I would state my rights as a consumer, and give them a simple choice play ball and sort it, or play hard ball and it will cost them, now I cant say what I would do as I have not read in detail every post and problem you have had, I read snip its and post from them. I would be well p'd should I have been sold something that is not working correctly, more so if said person said about a softner. give me a call tomorrow if you want and can try and help either way.

Ian

Hey ian mate.....
Thank you for that man....going also off what craig said......it is about the pressure man,
going to phone GAPS to see if they will refund or even credit note....doubt it tho man :
I told them i wasnt blameing them(by e-mail)as i was going to buy 40/40 anyway.....that's there back's covered  : : :
Idid tell them on phone my psi,but that no good,should of been by mail :
Will get back to ya ian mate,if that's okay...just gunna have a read ov this craig sent
Thank you for all ya time bud....

Kindest regards
Justin 

Hiya craig mate
Thank you for that man....wish i'd knew that before i bought this man.......do you want to buy a 40/40....

So it looks like iv just wasted a lot of time & money.....GUTTED
I dont know nothing about how to add a break tank etc....
Your post has shed a lot of light on the subject craig mate......thank you man
Basicly i need to sell this system........

Big thank you again for your time bud

Take care & kindest regards
Justin


Hiya dd man

I think the case would hinge on whether Justin told Gaps about his low pressure problems and whether they gave him unrealistic expectations when making the sale.

I never mentioned it man.......
& it does make sense what craig is saying dd :

Having a break/resevoir tank is an option but i am guessing it would have to be a large one, 1000 litres or more to keep up with the supply needed for the RO

Wouldnt even know were to start dd man

I think the best thing is to sell this & get a normal ro with a booster,if GAPS are not intrested....i know they not bothered.....they got the money now

Just cannot belive the situation's i get myself into guy's

Right im going to phone gaps in a bit....wasteing more money on phone

Thank you for all ya help guy's......ya sound

I will post back...
Take care
Justin

[Rob Smith]

I would be inclined to tell them about this thread on this forum. This is not good advertising for them. 

[C-N-C]

That's it man...ya right tho rob

Just bin back onto them for refund or credit note.......NO CHANCE!!!!!

Game over & im by myself man...
They not intrested mate......

Thankx tho fella

Take care & kindest regards
Justin