[C-N-C]

Hiya again guy's
hope ya all sound...
Well as some ov you know i invested in a 40/40 Hf5 low pressure system from gaps,a system what runs just on low tap pressure,without a pump-
LINK-http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=104058.20
Now, when i first got system it was producing 14ppm (without a boosterpump @ 10psi)....then rose to 16ppm & now its on 19ppm starting to worry me now
I'v had it about 7 weeks now & just changed sediment & carbon pre-filters(10") to see if that was problem,but it's still the same.
My first sediment housing gauge is registering @ 10psi,but the carbon houseing gauge after the sediment gauge   is not registering nothing,as if no water is going through at all??STRANGE
I have also got a water softner added.
would love to know what the problem is guy's,or could this 40/40 membrain do with a bit more psi,even tho its a low psi model?

Or do the membrains settle after a while & this will be the best it will produce???

Any help or insight into this will be much appreciated as i have bought system's b4 & the tds has been realy low for few weeks then crept up a lil bit & settled........might b just me..... :

Anyone with a bit ov membrain/Hf5 experience,i'd love to hear ya view's

Thank you for ya time & kindest regards
Justin
www.clean-n-clearwindows.co.uk

[mark mann]

hi c-n-c

im noy familiar with a low pressure system but your tds ppm seem high - mine have crept upto 2  and it seems likely the carbon/sediment and or resin needs changing i think the tolerable ppm is a max of 15 though im guessing your running the chance of spotting. the hiher your ppm.
i have wondered myself if you can re-pack the resin to get more life out of it.

so they say change the carbon and sediment filters every 3months approx -

hope u get it sorted

[Mr Bungalow]

Hello CNC,

Have you never tried adding a di resin tank to polish the last 015 TDS and take it down to zero

Should be ok once it has been done.

Warm regards.

[C-N-C]

hi c-n-c

im noy familiar with a low pressure system but your tds ppm seem high - mine have crept upto 2  and it seems likely the carbon/sediment and or resin needs changing i think the tolerable ppm is a max of 15 though im guessing your running the chance of spotting. the hiher your ppm.
i have wondered myself if you can re-pack the resin to get more life out of it.

so they say change the carbon and sediment filters every 3months approx -

hope u get it sorted

Hiya guy's
Big"THANK YOU" for takin da time to post!!!!!
Hiya Mark m8,
The DI resin is okay man,it's just the pure coming from RO....
It was 14ppm when i first got system bout 7 weks ago,then it rose to 16ppm,now it's on 19ppm.......strange.....
I'v changed sed/carbon filter's & it's still the same,i just dont want this ppm to keep rising or i would ov bin better keeping my old RO.... :

Thank you again mark mate,ya sound bud

Kindest regards
Justin

Hiya Mr Bungalow mate.....
Yeah dude,i have di bottles to polish the tds off,but,i am worried about water from new 40" RO...as the tds is creeping up slowley....when is it gunna stop bud?

Thank you for ya post's fella's
It's good to c a few guy's willing to try & sort ya problem out for ya......
BIG UP YOU FELLA'S
Left me waste fully open to flush system out for bout 15 min's....dont think that will drop ppm again,but its worth a try

Thank you again guy's
Take care & kindest regards
Justin
www.clean-n-clearwindows.co.uk

[C-N-C]

Hiya again guy's ppm is now 22-23..........a big jump from 14ppm when i purchased it a few weeks ago  
that's just about 10ppm rise from a brand new 40/40 RO
This cannot be right,surely guy's!!!!!
This RO was £500+
Anyone have any experience with membrains,RO's etc.....??Who maybee could shed bit light on this problem for me....PLEASE HELP
Like i say i'v changed sediment & carbon filter & had a mark on tap & pressure gauge so i know exactley where it needs to be for best ppm results & it's just not happening.....
I have recentley added a water softner,wich i flush the beads out once a week with dishsalts to regenarate them & send waste to drain.....i have disconected softner & still the same ppm?

Anyone help me out here lad's?

Take care & kindest regards
Justin
www.clean-n-clearwindows.co.uk

[steve smith]

I bought a HF5 at the same time. I have only got 20 psi but it is reading 20psi in both gauges. That's without a pump. Tds in around 300 out is about 17 can't get it any lower than that.

Can't understand though why only one gauge is reading the psi.

Steve

[C-N-C]

Hiya steve mate
I remember you getting your's man.....
Your psi is 20......mine wasnt even registering on the 2 gauges steve ,when i first bought it,my tap psi was that poor, until i closed drain valve a bit then they both rose the same time........
That's when i was getting 14ppm...(i turned the drain valve until the gauges rose to just under 30psi)
so 30psi was running through & i was producing 14ppm from 550 ppm tap water @ 30psi
But now when my drain valve is fully open ,only the first gauge register's 10psi (sediment filter)& the other (carbon filter)dont register/move at all....!!!
Mind you steve if i was getting 14ppm from mine & my tap water was 550+....i'v bin doing well & still not to bad realy.....,if you got 300 going in & 17 coming out ....
So now im on 550+ going in & 22-23 coming out...HMMMMMMMM!!! is that the norm???
Carnt help wondering why them gauges wrong & ppm rose so high from new!!!!!!

We could do with a couple of membrain boffin's on here bud,couldnt we?...LOL
Did you play about with the drain valve to get best ppm steve?

Thank you for ya post man....it's alway's a pleasure dude
Kindest regards
Justin

[Ian_Giles]

First things first; have you contacted Gaps Water and discussed your problem with them?
They ARE the specialists after all!

However; trying to understand your problem isn't easy, or rather the solving of it isn't!

The difference in the readings of the two pressure gauges when you have the drain valve open - I take it that you do mean the tap/valve that gives the back pressure to enable the membrane to work? - with such a low mains pressure the second gauge will hardly register at all, and will only do so as you begin to close the drain valve, thereby actually building up pressure for it to resister!

If you close the valve too far you will quickly clog up the membrane, especially with such a high tap water TDS reading.

I don't know what ratio of waste to pure should be with a low pressure 4040 R/O, but with a standard 4040 R/O, although you can achieve a 50:50 ratio of waste to pure, the lower the waste part of the ratio you try for will also reduce to potential lifespan of the membrane.

You really need to talk with Gaps Water to check what ratio they recommend. I know you have a mark on your gauge, but If there is a problem with the gauges you can always have the waste going to one measuring vessel and the pure to another to double check the ratio between them.

I know nothing about the use of a water softener setup used in conjunction with an R/O,  but I'm presuming you are using it as recommended by gaps?
Ditto the regeneration of the beads?

With such low mains pressure, perhaps you could try opening your drain valve fully and flush your membrane for an awful lot longer than 15 minutes?

My own mains pressure is 65 psi, and prior to EVERY use of my own 4040 the membrane is flushed for 20 minutes before closing the drain valve and beginning the production of pure water.

You do flush before every use of your R/O don't you?

With a low pressure 4040 I also don't know how long it will take once you close the drain valve for the membrane to achieve maximum efficiency, but with my own 4040 and 65psi, even after flushing it still takes a few minutes to achieve maximum efficiency.

Ian

[luther1]

As a 4040 reduces ppm by 98% so your ppm in of 550 should produce water out at 11 or so ppm. Changing pre filters generally doesn't change ppm reading just the longevity of the membrane. Can you manually adjust your valve to produce more waste and therefore reduce ppm reading?

[C-N-C]

Hiya ian mate

First things first; have you contacted Gaps Water and discussed your problem with them?
They ARE the specialists after all!

Not as yet mate,i will monday morning...as it's getting worse now..

I take it that you do mean the tap/valve that gives the back pressure to enable the membrane to work? - with such a low mains pressure the second gauge will hardly register at all, and will only do so as you begin to close the drain valve, thereby actually building up pressure for it to resister!

Yes i do mate,the drain valve.......so that's the norm then...i can tick that box

If you close the valve too far you will quickly clog up the membrane, especially with such a high tap water TDS reading.

I don't know what ratio of waste to pure should be with a low pressure 4040 R/O, but with a standard 4040 R/O, although you can achieve a 50:50 ratio of waste to pure, the lower the waste part of the ratio you try for will also reduce to potential lifespan of the membrane.

Right ian mate,i was playing about with waste ratio when i first got system & gap's told me not to bother,the membrain will be happiest when the tds is @ its lowest....so i got tds down to 14 then marked psi gauges & drain valve for future refrence...so i never finished the waste ratio,but theres a lot more going to drain.....

I know nothing about the use of a water softener setup used in conjunction with an R/O,  but I'm presuming you are using it as recommended by gaps?
Ditto the regeneration of the beads?

on my instructions ian,it recomends me to use a water softner in hard water area's......so iv used a old di vessel bottle & bought softner beads & filled the bottle with the beads ,then attached it after tap & before filters etc........then i disconect it to flush salts through,until all salts have gone....then connect it again to system...
Mind you ian,im sure this was okay until i added this softner...im not sure......
I wonder if i disconect it then flush again without softner.........its flushing now,gunna leave it to flush for a hour with softner on see if that's any better as you asked i hardley never flush it.....only for 2 minutes couple times a week... :

With such low mains pressure, perhaps you could try opening your drain valve fully and flush your membrane for an awful lot longer than 15 minutes?

My own mains pressure is 65 psi, and prior to EVERY use of my own 4040 the membrane is flushed for 20 minutes before closing the drain valve and beginning the production of pure water.

You do flush before every use of your R/O don't you?

I'v NEVER FLUSHED IT LIKE THAT DUDE
Like i say ian mate,im flushing it now for the next hour to c if that improves it....
I'll post later with a progress report
Thank you so much for you input my mate....ya sound fella

Take care ian & kind regards
Justin

Hiya luther1 m8

As a 4040 reduces ppm by 98% so your ppm in of 550 should produce water out at 11 or so ppm. Changing pre filters generally doesn't change ppm reading just the longevity of the membrane. Can you manually adjust your valve to produce more waste and therefore reduce ppm reading?

Thank you dude......
I thought it should be better than that reading man
Steve,did ya get that man???
yeah luther1 i changed filters and never made diffrence....wot a waste of money
I'v also played about with drain valve & cannot get it any lower bud......

Big thank you for them figures man.....good to know what i should be getting

Thank you luther1 mate
Take care & kind regards
Justin


Carnt help thinking guy's...is it this water softner...it was okay till i put that in,then bout a week or 2 later it started creeping up

I will phone gaps morro...& c wot its like after a good flush in a hour or 2.....i carnt belive this fella's

Take care guy's...ya sound
Justin

[luther1]

I'm in a hard water area and don't use a water softener at all and i've had my 4040 nearly 2 years and changed the pre filters once. I use 2000-2500 litres a week

[C-N-C]

I'm in a hard water area and don't use a water softener at all and i've had my 4040 nearly 2 years and changed the pre filters once. I use 2000-2500 litres a week

That's unbelivable luther bud
what's your tap inlet tds & outlet tds with your 40/40,if ya dont mind me asking??
I'v bin flushing my system out for about a hour now dude....im gunna try it now & if no improvement im gunna take water softner out,then flush for another hour see how it goes..........

Kindest regards
Justin

[luther1]

I will walk down the end of my garden and check my tds when it stops raining here.As i'm filling my tank up at the moment i can give you both accurate readings. Who recommended 10" pre-filters? I thought rule of thumbwith a 4040 was 20" filters? June at Gaps has forgotten more than we know so she will enlighten you tomorrow for sure

[C-N-C]

hey luther
Thanks man
It was actuly june from gap's who i bought the full system off
http://www.gapswater.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.gapswater.co.uk%2f&WD=40&PN=copy_of_Reverse_osmosis_kits.html%23a1111#a1111
This is the 1 i bought luther mate......
I phoned ro man for a price & he said the same as you,want 20" filters on 40/40...
but it was a bit pricey for his system......that's probaly why..LOL
Thank you luther man
Talk to ya soon bud
Justin

[Ian_Giles]

The removal of 98% of the dissolved solids is correct, but it does depend on having optimum conditions.
With a normal 4040, the lower the water pressure of your mains, the less efficient your system will be...
Not sure what is considered the ideal water pressure range for a low pressure 4040 membrane.
You have ruled out the pre=filters, however; if the particulate filter is exhausted it can cause a reduction in membrane pressure and therfore a reduction in membrane efficiency.
An exhausted carbon filter will no longer do its job; membranes get damaged by chlorine...change them regularly, the 10 inch ones are not expensive...

I was going to go for the larger 20 inch pre-filters, but didn't bother, the housings might be a one off payment, but the actual filters are more than double the price of the smaller ones 10 inch ones, at least where I purchase mine from!!

Without knowing how a water softener impacts on an R/O system, it sounds to me as if it is most probably linked to lack of sufficient flushing of the membrane prior to pure water production.
I will look forward with interest to hearing how you get on with things after a more intensive flushing of the membrane, and also if the removal = should the flush with water softener still in place makes no difference - of said water softener effects your results...

Fingers crossed for you, and if our 'non specialist' advice proves ineffective, I'm sure June from Gaps will get you sorted if you need to call her 

Ian

[C-N-C]

Hiya Ian mate...
Your post's have been great....
THANK YOU
I have changed filters, as i said ian,£11.00 for the 2 ......your right,realy cheap.....
I bought the system less than 2 month ago,so filter's should of been okay

Without knowing how a water softener impacts on an R/O system, it sounds to me as if it is most probably linked to lack of sufficient flushing of the membrane prior to pure water production.

I have family who run a big buisness & they have a water company contractor's to keep water soft....now when i added water softner to my system the ppm rose from 550 to 600 tds....so i pannicked & got in touch with family,who rang contractors & they recon the extra ppm will have no effect whatsoever on ro system.....!!!!
infact it will keep it effective...EH!!


Anyway ian mate...getting back to flushing....i flushed with water softner still on for hours and no change.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Took water softner off & flushed for couple hours & ppm dropped from 23 to 20..........
Could this be the problem....i havent flushed enough? :


So the softner is hmmmmm!!!!!   not sure....will flush a lot longer tommorow
Let ya know if it gets any lower bud.....
I HOPE SO.....

Ya know ya stuff fella
Take care ian & Kindest regards
Justin

[dd]

From what you have said I am guessing the softener for some reason could be the problem (theoretically it shouldn't, perhaps it is adding some sort of contaniment), be interesting to know if it works much better without.

With such low water pressure I don't think you will get the best performance even from a low pressure membrane.

Good luck and best wishes.

[C-N-C]

Hiya guys & dd

just Been on to june from gaps & the problem,she said is the manual water softner im useing
This one @ the top ov the page-http://www.cleaningspot.co.uk/acatalog/Purolite_water_softener_resin_and_Salt.html :

I had a old di vessel & a old 10" cartrige & made 1 myself
Now iv been regenerating the softner beads once a week & gap's said i should be regenerating them everyday nealy.......
They say it sound's like the softner vessel has been holding that much impurities,it has caused blocking of membrain
She also said it should come round if i take softner off or replace it with a automatic 1 & i am doing well at 22ppm from 500+......
she said i should expect about 30ppm...dont know about that like...LOL
Also she said 5 minutes is enough for a flush
So it looks like my softner is turning back to a resin vessel for the tank
I did not realy like the thought of running salt through system..it sound's scary...but...if it was gunna protect membrain i had to give it a go

Anyway guy's...that's the problem by the looks of it,just hope it hasnt done any serious dammage.....

A realy big thank you for your help guy's
VERRY MUCH APPRECITED
Ya ALL SOUND
I will post on this thread if tds start's to drop.....

Thank you again & kindest regards

Justin
www.clean-n-clearwindows.co.uk

[C-N-C]

P.S..Anyone live near hartlepool want some softner beads?

[Ian_Giles]

Glad you have got it sorted 

Regards flushing...if you are on a meter it makes sense to flush for the shortest time possible, I was told 5 minutes too, but tend to play it safe
Now I'm not supplying Squeaky a 1000 litres can last me 3 days, ergo I only flush & re-fill on average about 3 times for every 10 working days, and as I'm not on a meter a 20 minute flush gives me piece of mind...better safe than sorry...even if it is over the top! 

Ian