[GRAHAM.K]

The debate about wfp killing the squeege got me thinking about the Luddites in the industrial revolution smashing up the newly invented spinning Jenny's because they feared for their jobs, and eventually their way of life was obliterated. However the change to semi automated/steam machinery made Britain the greatest industrial power the world had ever witnessed,and so began a period of change which eventually has given us the lifestyles we enjoy today. change is it is up there with death and taxes as a sure thing.
 
Twenty five years ago it took six months to get phone line installed, we read the evening paper by candle light and bought olive oil from the chemists.Thank God for change!

I don't think people who have invested in wfp are trying to impress, i think it is a neccesary tool in the box, purely because of change. I think it is important to evaluate your business and use change to your advantage.

I too started with a knackered old van a two pieces of scrim but am certainly not trying to impress anyone because  I now drive a new van with wfp system.I have simply changed and evolved as the years have passed I don't see why that should be dismissed as "crap"

For example, most new houses today have a smaller foot print but go up 3 or 4 stories, with windows impossible to access by ladder (maybe illegal) wfp is the answer.

There will always be work for squeege only w/c but there will be more work available to w/c who use all methods available and that trend will continue.

It appears to me on this site that the w/c's who use wfp accept that the squeege is another good tool in the box, but the squgee only users seem to believe we've all fallen for some great marketing scam. I can asure you mine earns it's keep.

  I also don't believe that we shall see an influx of wfp'ers in the future.This equipment has been available 10 years or more what signs points to a sudden rise in newcomers?
Window cleaning or any type of cleaning in not considered a cool enough career option for most people, I think we have little to fear.
Well off to work, on a bank holiday too.....got to pay for that flash van somehow

cheers.

[H h20]

The debate about wfp killing the squeege got me thinking about the Luddites in the industrial revolution smashing up the newly invented spinning Jenny's because they feared for their jobs, and eventually their way of life was obliterated. However the change to semi automated/steam machinery made Britain the greatest industrial power the world had ever witnessed,and so began a period of change which eventually has given us the lifestyles we enjoy today. change is it is up there with death and taxes as a sure thing.
 
Twenty five years ago it took six months to get phone line installed, we read the evening paper by candle light and bought olive oil from the chemists.Thank God for change!

I don't think people who have invested in wfp are trying to impress, i think it is a neccesary tool in the box, purely because of change. I think it is important to evaluate your business and use change to your advantage.

I too started with a knackered old van a two pieces of scrim but am certainly not trying to impress anyone because  I now drive a new van with wfp system.I have simply changed and evolved as the years have passed I don't see why that should be dismissed as "crap"

For example, most new houses today have a smaller foot print but go up 3 or 4 stories, with windows impossible to access by ladder (maybe illegal) wfp is the answer.

There will always be work for squeege only w/c but there will be more work available to w/c who use all methods available and that trend will continue.

It appears to me on this site that the w/c's who use wfp accept that the squeege is another good tool in the box, but the squgee only users seem to believe we've all fallen for some great marketing scam. I can asure you mine earns it's keep.

  I also don't believe that we shall see an influx of wfp'ers in the future.This equipment has been available 10 years or more what signs points to a sudden rise in newcomers?
Window cleaning or any type of cleaning in not considered a cool enough career option for most people, I think we have little to fear.
Well off to work, on a bank holiday too.....got to pay for that flash van somehow

cheers.

My words exactly Graham,cheers,Gaz

[24-7 S C Services]

Hi Graham

Very good post mate.

I know the feeling also about working on the bank holiday, I was up and out at 6 am, back at 8 am and heading out again now. Stupid computer doesn’t note bank holidays, when the work is being booked in 

Andrew

[matt]

what i dislike about people who have new vans and the like

is you look down on people who dont, i have a DIY WFP setup and ive been called a cowboy because of it, i drive a estate car and also been called a cowboy because of it

people start to belive they crap that others spout about being "pro"

[H h20]

what i dislike about people who have new vans and the like

is you look down on people who dont, i have a DIY WFP setup and ive been called a cowboy because of it, i drive a estate car and also been called a cowboy because of it

people start to belive they crap that others spout about being "pro"

Hi Matt,iv`e always had escort estates and have set up my own wfp(diy) i work on my own and i have recently got 6 month old a citroen berlingo(not van) i decided to have signs on it as it is a great way of advertising and it is not expensive either,i am in no way making a huge income but me personaly think it just looks good and why not have a nice vehicle for work? i work hard for my money and when you see all other tradesmen ie plumbers,electricians driving round in nice vans or cars it doesn`t always mean they look down on others it is what they have decided to buy i think it is a personal choice to go for a nicer vehicle as i am no way a snob and far far from it,it is like buying anything really ie bigger tv or going abroad for your holidays,i don`t go abroad i go camping it`s what  me and my family chose,so i wouldn`t let it get to you mate,Cheers,Gaz. 

[Moderator David@stives]

so nobody read the posts on here about dinosaurs, cowboys ,bad
image ,etc .
if you want to use wfp use it .and if we dont dont force it down peoples  throats

[matt]

Gaz, i agree with you

in this world we have all types, and i know a fair few local to me who are great guys, its just on the interent, people create a Persona, and plenty have the "im better than you" ideals

and why are they better than you

just because they pretend they are

its all rather sad really,

[GRAHAM.K]

,
just for the record I did'nt refer to anyone using a diy system and an estate car as a cowboy, and I never insinuated i look down on people who don't have a new van.The only time cowboy was mentioned was to describe someone new to wfp'ing(david)

Not once have i said i'm better than anyone else in my posts.
I agree with Gaz, i work hard and want to improve my business, so why not have a new van( my first one) and wfp.
You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about factory fitted systems, for me it was the most viable option, each to their own.

Wether using a squeege or wfp or both i have respect for any w/c who can support himself and family through his own endeavours,week in week out.


regards

[Moderator David@stives]

i am not anti wfp .i did not say you said cowboys .it just crops up time to time.and werent implying it was you.

"""The only time cowboy was mentioned was to describe someone new to wfp'ing(david)"""

does that mean you are saying i am a cowboy

[P @ F]

  YEE HA !

   
                  Rich   P @ F

[Rick]

hey ya graham.....

please dont think im against or im out mock the WFP users if anything you have more guts than me and what ever was said in previouse posts was not meant to be pointed at any form of cleaning, MY personal point was ... if you have a new van great if you dont it doesnt effect the way you clean windows....

as regards a WFP its no different from a thread call "scrim or shamy?" its just another form of cleaning windows, again my point with this WFP thing is that if you dont own or use a WFP on your work you are not cleaning them to the standard you should.... now before i get a million hate emails i dont think i have actualy seen those words posted but since i have been on here thats the Feeling i get from some of the BIGGER guys.....

i accept we will not see eye to eye on the repocutions of the WFP, which is fine we all have our views....

but PLEASE dont think i was trying to attack the WFP users that is just not the case, its not for me but again we are all different....

i think we actualy went a little to deep in whole thing and the main point was lost after the first 10 or so posts and i think its just best keft at that , unfortunatly we feel (from both sides of the fence "WFP/trad") that the other is attacking there way of work.

this is not the case from my end and from what you have posted since i dont think you are either, so lets just agree to disagree on this little puppy, at the end of the day if you are happy with your work who is anyone else to tell you how to do it....

lets not let somehting like this spoil the good natured discusions we have on here, besides graham googled will be well again soon and he will be posting as strong as ever  so lots of good times to come hehehehe....

regards

Rick

[matt]

,
just for the record I did'nt refer to anyone using a diy system and an estate car as a cowboy, and I never insinuated i look down on people who don't have a new van.The only time cowboy was mentioned was to describe someone new to wfp'ing(david)

Not once have i said i'm better than anyone else in my posts.
I agree with Gaz, i work hard and want to improve my business, so why not have a new van( my first one) and wfp.
You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about factory fitted systems, for me it was the most viable option, each to their own.



regards

did i say you said  using a diy system and an estate car as a cowboy

NO, i said some of the shiny van WFP users, if you havent seen the posts, open your eyes

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about factory fitted systems, for me it was the most viable option, each to their own.

ONCE AGAIN, NO, i have problems with people calling me a cowboy because i didnt give the Latest "in-choice" maker 2 K of my money AND i have a problem people calling my system "cheap and nasty and it gives the "pros" a bad name

so do i have a chip on my shoulder, i dont think so, if you do, i dont really care what you think, i care what my customers think and they like the system and the work i do, so carry on thinking whatever you do, as i couldnt care less

Im back off out, might take my daughter for a ice cream and feed the ducks, as i dont work on bank holidays, dont need the money (i only have 1 horse to feed)

[thewindowcleaner1]

Im back off out, might take my daughter for a ice cream and feed the ducks, as i dont work on bank holidays, dont need the money (i only have 1 horse to feed)

Gread is good.

            Thats what the missus tells me (when she's taking my earnings off me)

[Paul Coleman]

what i dislike about people who have new vans and the like

is you look down on people who dont, i have a DIY WFP setup and ive been called a cowboy because of it, i drive a estate car and also been called a cowboy because of it

people start to belive they crap that others spout about being "pro"

Hi Matt,iv`e always had escort estates and have set up my own wfp(diy) i work on my own and i have recently got 6 month old a citroen berlingo(not van) i decided to have signs on it as it is a great way of advertising and it is not expensive either,i am in no way making a huge income but me personaly think it just looks good and why not have a nice vehicle for work? i work hard for my money and when you see all other tradesmen ie plumbers,electricians driving round in nice vans or cars it doesn`t always mean they look down on others it is what they have decided to buy i think it is a personal choice to go for a nicer vehicle as i am no way a snob and far far from it,it is like buying anything really ie bigger tv or going abroad for your holidays,i don`t go abroad i go camping it`s what  me and my family chose,so i wouldn`t let it get to you mate,Cheers,Gaz. 

Personally, the only reason I prefer newish vans is because i'm too lazy to learn how to fix them when they go wrong.  With a newer one there is usually less off road time I've found.  By newish, I mean under 5 years old.  My current one is just over 5 years old now but I will wait till I upgrade to a larger one  - probably next year.

[Ray Pickering]

Alright you lot!!

There seems (to me) that theres more threads about WFPs than trad methods!

We the sqeegee brigade (i don't assume to be the spokesperson) have noticed that anyone going into WFP are having complete nightmares with spotting etc; (whatever that is)

I like many other's have considered going down that road so have asked relevant questions, one of mine was "if your cleaning a block of flats & the one below dose'nt want theres doing (with water running down onto theres) what do you do" reply was there window cleaner will have to deal with it!! so in other words tough sh*t.

I don't think with domestic's i will even consider WFP but if i got a load of commercial work i buy a set up tomorrow.

I reckon some of the WFP brigade think they are a little bit superior because this thread is an offshoot of the most boring topic ever "HEALTH & SAFETY issues which was discussed mainly by the WFP ladderless people.

Most half intelligent people have the greatest respect for H&S but like any rules & regulations they go over the top, but the people discussing the issue seemed to take great delight on ladder cleaners breaking the law eg. not using ladder matt's or Rojak stopper's etc; not using tying iron's in the brickwork.

We all need to be safe in the workplace or on the way to work so remember all these safety issues when your driving to work never ever drive above the speed limit---never cross double white lines--never park on continuous yellow lines, but none of us have ever done this HAVE WE!!!

Regards Ray.

[matt]

ray some good points

personally the ONLY reason i use WFP is the H and S asspect of the work

i am stood on the ground 99 % of the time, ladders come off the car TWICE in 6 weeks (my round is every 6 weeks) they come off to climb onto 2 Flat roofs, i have considered dropping these 2, but they have been good to me and im a soft touch
(for the record the twice the laddr come off, i also carry a canvas bag with 20 KG of sand in it, its my dead weight, i use that as a stop, a little over the top, but it only takes 2 mins to go to the car and get the ladders and the bag)

i dont claim the WFP does a "top notch job" i know its not as good as traditional

BUT

it does a good enough job, and people are happy

[Ray Pickering]

Matt.

I respect your comment's.

But it seem's to me you've got to be doing WFP for (100) years to be something like!

There's been more than one cleaner changed over even had day courses & have come away still in the dark.

Theres been people that's changed over & the customer's have said---i do'nt like all that water running down the brickwork-- & what happen's in winter when it freezers.

There's no doubt WFP is the way forward--but it's not straightforward.

My eldest lad (who's a fencing contractor) was working at this house saw a bloke using WFP & was cleaning a conservatory said it was horrendous the amount of water running everywhere & was'nt at all impressed with the job he had done & my lad's not a window cleaner! so what would the customer think.

Having said that it could have been his first job with WFP but my lad said he was happy with the job.

So could it be the WFP (poetry) is perfect for commercial unit's etc; but not so perfect for domestic's, i'm sure somebody will enlighten on this subject.

Regards Ray.

[matt]

Matt.

I respect your comment's.

But it seem's to me you've got to be doing WFP for (100) years to be something like!

There's been more than one cleaner changed over even had day courses & have come away still in the dark.

Theres been people that's changed over & the customer's have said---i do'nt like all that water running down the brickwork-- & what happen's in winter when it freezers.

There's no doubt WFP is the way forward--but it's not straightforward.

My eldest lad (who's a fencing contractor) was working at this house saw a bloke using WFP & was cleaning a conservatory said it was horrendous the amount of water running everywhere & was'nt at all impressed with the job he had done & my lad's not a window cleaner! so what would the customer think.

Having said that it could have been his first job with WFP but my lad said he was happy with the job.

So could it be the WFP (poetry) is perfect for commercial unit's etc; but not so perfect for domestic's, i'm sure somebody will enlighten on this subject.

Regards Ray.

Ray, ive been doing WFP for allmost 1 year now, i am no expert and to be honest i dont go into the "whys, hows etc" i just jumped in with both feet, not strictly true, i used WFP on the hard to reach windows first time (over roofs etc etc), then the 2nd i did them all

i dont know how it works etc apart from, water in Barrel, pumped up to brush head, brushed on the GLASS then rinsed off, this is all i need to know

i use 100 L's a day of water, not much compared to the van systems that use 400 L's, the floor doesnt even get wet

if you think too much about anything, you will allways find reasons to stay the same BUT if the same works for you, then who the hell am I to tell you to change

as i said, the ONLY reason is my safety, thats all

[Ray Pickering]

Matt.

THanks for your very honest reply!!!

Ray.

[gaza]

HI RAY:back on again these gremlins on comp are behond me .Ray see your getting braver with your postings
If you want to see wfp in its glory,give me a ring for the 15/16th of this month only to willing to show you.
Nothing to much for you pall,just bring a sun hat and deck chair.

How you doing anyway,soon be to cold for your bike,[zimmer frame with two wheels] and a few mirrors

talk soon Ray
cheers GAZA