[Moderator David@stives]

graham what a load of b888888cks
window cleaning has been serviced by so called rusty old car drivers for years .The only person you are impressing is yourself .All my customers want to know if i can clean windows ,full stop. I think it is you and people like you who are deluding themselves.

not all window cleaners want to expand and run big company`s they are happy with a decent round . and do a very decent job ,not "oh i left a few spots but that does not matter "school of thought .that sentiment is more cowboyish than any 15 year old mondeo.

i think i will lower my standards because i have a shiny new van.
wfp has its place ,but its not the magic wand a lot of people think it is.

as for spots i have never seen a truly spot free window with wfp.
even the guys at ionics could not produce a spot free window for me at the bwca .they just came up with some lame excuse.

so if you can do it without spots i would get in touch with the bwca  they may be interested .

i would use wfp tomorrow if i thought it was any good i am still not convinced i actually have a system myself and will use it sparingly on a few select customers with difficult windows.
the only thing i can see they are good for is safety ,but safety is no good if you start losing customers .

nothing personal but i drive around in a 15 year old volvo
and probably look like a cowboy to you .and i have got customers in £1 +million houses and top businesses .it is the quality of your work most people are interested in.and your inter personal skills.
not your big shiney pole and van

dave

[John Conroy]

OH davy we bit touchy 

John
 

[Moderator David@stives]

well this van snobbery cra p  realy winds me up most people go into w/c because they are skint ,not for a £400 a month van payment .i am sure we all may get there eventually.
and i have just had a row with the wife in tesco ./ time for deep breaths and another ciggy.

[UBA1]

well,
first of all"SUPPLY AND DEMAND ALWAYS DECREASES PRICES" what an earth does that mean. Maybe what you mean is that in a free market economy the price for goods or services is determined by the ratio of supply and demand.There is a demand and a supply for houses but prices have not gone down.

With regards to wfp'ing i get the impression that the guys who want move their business forward have embraced this new technology , in my opinion it is necassary to compete with other professional cleaning companies.

The guys who prefer the trad methods probably do houses and the odd corner shop, not really direct competition with the serious wfp cleaners.

This argument about leaving spots on windows is in my opinion futile.We use Ionic equipment and leave our windows clean. You may get the odd spot for a number of reasons but so what unless you go looking for it you won't notice.
In 30 years of window clening i've yet to meet the man or woman who uses a squeege and leaves every window perfect, that my friends is a definite case
of self delusion.

ps. in my experience the guys in shiny new vans tend to do better than those guys driving around in rusty 15 year old mondeos, that goes for any profession.
regards



Very good post.

Anyways, look at your windows in the direct sunlight when cleaning with a blade, or scrimming a leaded window, tell me they`re ain`t no blade marks or buff marks. WFP don`t leave these things behind.[

[Moderator David@stives]

no just spots and runs without the sunlight

[UBA1]

well this van snobbery cra p  realy winds me up most people go into w/c because they are skint ,not for a £400 a month van payment .i am sure we all may get there eventually.
and i have just had a row with the wife in tesco ./ time for deep breaths and another ciggy.

I`ve got a new van, and no i don`t pay 400 nicker a month, my successful business has paid it outright for me. FACT! Sowhere am i going wrong then?
 

[Moderator David@stives]

like i said we all have to start somewhere and usually go into w/c because they are skint.
i am currently looking for a van ,but not for bragging rights or to impress the customers they all love me anyway.

and definately not to belittle my fellow w/c s as we are all in the same boat.

as regards to earnings i do very well thank you i just choose to spend my money differently at the moment .

[John Conroy]

The Problem with window cleaning is a image problem JOE PUBLIC think well only a window cleaner : going round in a rust bucket is only playing into there hands  

John

[Moderator David@stives]

john the wind-up

thats what the customer expects .and i have never lost a job by it .or not got a quote by it .
after all we are only window cleaners arent we !! :

[John Conroy]

had a row with the wife in tesco

davy easy to wind-up , so no tea tonight for navy davy dinners in the dog  

[Moderator David@stives]

no she has apologized ,because she knows it was all her fault of course .

and i am just about to get a sunday roast. yum yum and who knows maybe some afters

[24-7 S C Services]

HI Everyone

David, your comment, 'We are only window cleaners'. What does that entail? Is a window cleaner someone can look down on and frown at? Are we in a category where we are the scum of the earth? If we put ourselves in a category 'Only', that gives Joe public the right to think and treat us how they like.

Personally, I am a window cleaner, I am providing a quality service for my customers, for which they must pay the prices I state. If they don’t like the prices, they can get someone else, maybe someone who wants to be in the 'Only category'.

It does not matter if you are wfp or traditional, this is your trade and your income. I think window cleaners should hold their heads high and show everyone, we are offering a professional service.

I was OPS Manager for a large cleaning company many years ago and was approached by the Facilities Manager of a major bank, who looked down at me and called me 'Only the cleaner'. Well she got a peace of my mind and she was horrified to find that I earned 30k more a year than her.

I won’t be put in an 'Only' Box and neither anyone of us.

Sorry for ranting on.

Andrew

[Moderator David@stives]

The Problem with window cleaning is a image problem JOE PUBLIC think well only a window cleaner : going round in a rust bucket is only playing into there hands  

John

calm down boy you are getting as bad as me
it was just a play on words spoken by so callled cleaning proffesionals
who think i am doing the image of w/c a lot of harm

[John Conroy]

Mybe you are

[Moderator David@stives]

  try telling that to my 300 customers .who i have had for 7 years.
anyway im not biting . sorry to dissappoint you

[UBA1]

The Problem with window cleaning is a image problem JOE PUBLIC think well only a window cleaner : going round in a rust bucket is only playing into there hands  

John

calm down boy you are getting as bad as me
it was just a play on words spoken by so callled cleaning proffesionals
who think i am doing the image of w/c a lot of harm

I ain`t saying you provide a poor image, do what you want, if your earning top dollars, well done, we all do things our own way, my way may not be best, but it ain`t done me no harm financially either.

[Moderator David@stives]

now we can all be friends again
dont you just love a good debate

[Rick]

well im in 110% agreement with dave here, some of the comments leaving your keyboards is blowing me away... here are a few of favourite ones (warning gurdle needed)


"graham k
There is a demand and a supply for houses but prices have not gone down. "

 : im sorry m8 you seem to have your lions crossed here, the reason the price of houses hasnt droped is because there is a ""SHORTAGE"" of housing WE are talking about the exact oposite hence to many window cleaners and im telling you another fact prices will fall through the bottom with this extra competition, trust me...

"graham k
The guys who prefer the trad methods probably do houses and the odd corner shop, not really direct competition with the serious wfp cleaners.

thats just not on my friend so depending on what customers we have relates to weather we sit in this !!"""cowboy"""!! image everyone blubbers on about its just pure bull and if you think along those lines well......... i think its a sad state of afairs to be honest.

"graham k
ps. in my experience the guys in shiny new vans tend to do better than those guys driving around in rusty 15 year old mondeos, that goes for any profession.

pricless just priceless you deserve a medel... i fail to see how the age/make and model of your works car states how succesfull you are, i run around in L reg (yep 1993) astra hatch does this make me not as succesfull as the next guy runing round in a merc? i have the saving to go buy one now but i dont i really would like to have this explained please as its baffling me somewhat...

UBA 1
Anyways, look at your windows in the direct sunlight when cleaning with a blade, or scrimming a leaded window, tell me they`re ain`t no blade marks or buff marks. WFP don`t leave these things behind

why dont you take a look? ooohhh sorry for that you would need (shock horor) LaDdErS  ....

someone said in a earlier post its like cars, ford carnt compete with BMW on the class of car so BMW are more expensive than ford....... what can i say...... cars are a PRODUCT window cleaning is a service, they are 2 completly diffent things, and by saying that you are saying that trad cleaners are clearning to a lower standard wich i find a but rough to honest.....

the simple fact is just this.....

the advent of the WFP is by stretch of the imagination a good invention and im not going to knock it in anyway!, its not for me but each to there own, i like to see what im cleaning and not hope its clean and done the job, BUT its just like anyother industy lets take car's...

you need a full driving licence to drive on the road in a conventional car, lets just say a form of electric car was invented that only had a top speed of X amount and was a given size, and the goverment made it law that 15 year olds can drive these things with smal test to make sure you can stop the car, would there be a rise in people on the road? you bet ya pension there would be.. as the car as opened up a new area for people to get into that in the past they were unable to enter...

same here with the invent of the WFP people who in years gone buy run away from the word "window cleaning" becasue of the height of the work now are saying "hey no ladders?? no heights??? lets give it ago!!" so what you get is yep has the penny dropped MORE WINDOW CLEANERS...

So you may have some very nice guys with the best intetions of making a go at this but becasue they are new and feel it best to charge lower for 1. to get customers 2. becasue there still learning the ropes, will drive down prices as this will be tied together with triple the competition...

that is at best mind you, i know of many people who have tried window cleaning in the past, and they said yes it pays well but d**n its hard work and a little word comes in here called "graft" some of these people now work or did work in rolling mills builders and so on jobs that are not easy by any means but the GRAFT needed to cleans a days windows puts them off finishing at 3:00pm and on a d**n good wage, with the WFP this choped out! opening another avenue once again for new w/c's to jump on the band wagon, im not saying ANYONE can clean using a WFP.... EVERYTHING takes practice, even walking but once you know how its easy in trad cleaning you learn THEN YOU GRAFT for your wage with WFP you just learn... hence more window cleaners....

this is very worryng for me as you would not belive the amount of NON W/C's that have come up to me and mentioned said device, these people know and in todays world there isnt anyone out there not interested in making a quick killing.. and im sorry but if you cannot see this you guys are going to have a nasty shock come a couple of years down the line maybe sooner but it will come i can promise that....

you all should be concerned wheather you use trad or wfp methods its comming to all of us

[Moderator David@stives]

wow rick ,did you stay up all night writing that one .
i will give you that £5.00 tommorrow .
respect man respect

[Sir Squeaky]

If you drive around in a flash van customers will think you're ripping them off.

David, I wasn't always with you on some matters lately, but you've got it spot on with this one.
You've said everything I would have, and saved me loads of typing.

Cheers,     
             Victor Meldrew.