[Sarah Sarill]

Hi guys,

This is the situation !!!

I have just INVESTED in an RO system which I have been using for both residential and commercial work now for almost a month.  No problems here - luckily I have not lost any customers having been thorough with my explanation of the system and leaving every one with a newsletter explaining the concept and reasons for the change.

Now here is the dilema.  Like many areas there has been an influx of cowboy  w/c the area I cover (quite affluent with lots of disposable income)and at some stage soon it will be saturated leaving me no room for growth.  Secondly there is great profit in commercial - an area I NEED to expand into.  Currently only about 10% of my work is commecial and would like it to be at least 30%.

Heres my question to you w/c boffins !!!. In order to protect my business (and my livelyhood) I want to poach commercial work so how do I do it ?

I already have an ad in yellow pages which does produce results WHEN & IF the customer need a w/c (or is unhappy with their current one for whatever reason).  Unfortunately this means that I have to be pro-active and somewhat ruthless in my endeavour to get new business.

Has any one tried a personalised letter targetted tocertain business types.  Can we use wfp as a hook and how would we word this so it is legal ? Also has any one ever done a letter offering a free clean for the chance to quote for w/c (commercial only). I know this type of promotion works in industries like advertising etc but has it worked in our industry ?

Your views and other ideas gratefully accepted and I do somewhat apologise for the tone of this posting which comes accross a a bit ruthless.  The word poach has been used as that is what I will have to do as most commercial work in this area is already taken (and in the main by cowboy set ups). 

Cheers in advance

[Simon Carter]

I've been window cleaning for a long time. I'm very unusual in that for my own reasons, I have made a coscious decision to focus on the residential side of things, having previously had an entirely commercial orientated business. Having done both I can tell you there is absolutely no difference between the two in terms of what the customer wants & what is acceptable in going after it.
There are two types of potential customers, those who do not have a window cleaner & those who do, but are unhappy. either with the service they are receiving, or the price.  In both cases, the client makes the decision. All's you can do is ask. This idea of " poaching " is peculiar to window cleaning. In most other industries, it's called competing. You cannot take business off of someone if the client is happy with the service they are receiving & the price they are being charged. Any window cleaner who gets his knickers in a twist about losing a client should look to himself first. The only exception is where someone offers to do a job for a silly price, but in such a circumstance it is my experience that most understand that this will not last ( either the price or the service ). As long as your price is reasonable & you deliver on all other fronts, rarely will you lose a customer in this way.
Finally, in building your business, trust be, nothing works better than a personal approach, combined with good timing. It's a numbers game. Put yourself about, do a good job & your business will grow. there will always be cowboys, but thankfully, most clients recognise them for what they are.

[H h20]

If you are worried about not getting much commercial work in your area then it is possible to travel thats what cars and vans were invented for,i travel to a lot of my work because yes there are alot of window cleaners in my area and all you need to do is look at how far you a really prepared to travel,the thing is with commercial work is jobs can take a day or two to do and usually pay well,not all areas have as many window cleaners as others so all you need to do is go for a drive looking at new developments some are massive and can be out of your league but if there is no competiton you can put really good prices in so don`t just live in a small box if you are determind to succeed be prepared to go further than the end of your road,some commercial buildings are miles from any town or city,because the land they developed on was proberbly cheap and bigger than land near to town,so go out there and look,i do advertise in yellow pages and i get calls now and then but nothing major,if you go and look for work you sometimes can be in the right place at the right time and as for cowboy window cleaners they only seem to be after making a quick buck and don`t usually last and are not self employed properly,keep your chin up mate and be prepared to travel,Gaz.

[Moderator David@stives]

what is this cowboy thing
you make it sound as if they are everywhere,
ive heard of cowboy builders but window cleaners come on?

[H h20]

what is this cowboy thing
you make it sound as if they are everywhere,
ive heard of cowboy builders but window cleaners come on?

It doesn`t take much imagination to realise the difference.

[Moderator David@stives]

in what way tell me i am intrigued

[H h20]

Well you say you`ve heard of cowboy builders,so what`s your defanition of a cowboy builder?

[Moderator David@stives]

well houses falling down etc ,charging £0000s ,not doing the job.
anyway i think i asked the question

[H h20]

Alright keep your knickers on, so you need a bit of help here then,well anyone can start cleaning windows and as soon as you start to earn money from it is so easy to pick up work by charging low prices either because they are still drawing money fron the dole or are doing such a quick shoddy job that its only the money they are interested in and not taking pride in why they are doing the job in the first place ie "cowboy" iv `e been a window cleaner for 17 years and all my customers both domestic and commercial can see how professional i am,we are doing this job to actually leave the windows looking clean and not full of streaks usually using a beer towel and a diy ladder, and in some cases not even cleaned at all,i have actually watched cowboy window cleaners look at a window without cleaning it and then knocking for the money is this right? to me thats a cowboy,i clean every window i turn up to clean on every job thats what i get paid for.

[poleman]

WELL SAID Gaz 

Andy

[Moderator David@stives]

well you said some valid points especially about honesty.
i know old timers who have been cleaning for over 20 years and they  do a terrible job ,that does not make them cowboys .
another bloke uses tea towels. cowboy no .
it just makes me mad when people think because you turn up in an old car ,clapped out ladders etc .that makes you a cowboy .
as for signing on ,no not a cowboy just stupid .
and as for charging low prices ,well its a free market economy.
if what you mean by some one encroaching on your patch ,and not got a sign written van ,not a cowboy either .
each to there own just dont make assumptions ,just because people do it a different way than you.there are a lot of hard working honest people out there no matter what they look like.


i know guys who have never cleaned before ,gone out and got wfp and new sign written van and have not got a clue and had no training then try to charge £30.00 hr.
now if we are talking cowboys which one is which.

do you actually know these guys have you actually spoken to them .
or are we getting to the window cleaner versus wfp snoberey

nothing personal h20
dave

[H h20]

WELL SAID Gaz 

Andy

No affence taken David,we are all free to our own oppion,so looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree here, Gaz.

[Moderator David@stives]

also i always go out of my way  to talk to window cleaners i have never seen before and see what they are up to and in my experience they are always decent people.sometimes annoying only because they turn up to do 1or 2 houses where i am doing most of the street.
i have never met or heard of a cowboy in 7 years of window cleaning. there are lots of one year wonders about .but that does not make them cowboys.every one has to start somewhere .
gees i started with a bucket and sponge and did not have a clue.
now i consider myself to be one of iff not the best cleaners in my area.

rant over

[H h20]

also i always go out of my way  to talk to window cleaners i have never seen before and see what they are up to and in my experience they are always decent people.sometimes annoying only because they turn up to do 1or 2 houses where i am doing most of the street.
i have never met or heard of a cowboy in 7 years of window cleaning. there are lots of one year wonders about .but that does not make them cowboys.every one has to start somewhere .
gees i started with a bucket and sponge and did not have a clue.
now i consider myself to be one of iff not the best cleaners in my area.

rant over

David,it`s ok chillout,read my last post.

[Moderator David@stives]

sorry i had already typed it and was not going to waste it .

long deep breaths   :aaaaaaaaahhhhh

 

[dai]

I have found that the main culprits in substandard window cleaning are not the sterotyped immages that we are lead to believe. The main culprits in my experience are employees.
 I picked up a couple of very nice jobs this week from victims of substandard work.
Nice new white PVC and all the frames were minging. I would say this to any one that employes a few lads. supervise their work regularly. If you pay them for the ammount of work they do in a day, well the temptation is there to get in and out as quick as possible. I will put pride in my work first and the cash comes after. If the jobs a bad one then it's down to me and the Mrs. These guys decended on the houses in a gang of four, if anyone complains they blame one of the others.
If there are any cowboys in our game they are the ones that think that all they have to do is canvass the work, take on a few guys, and wait for the cash to come in. DAi

[Davindo Cleana]

That's not poaching - you don't have an unfair advantage -
you are just competing - why worry about it - if the commercial clients move to you it will probably be down to poor service from the previous cleaners -
you probably don't know what the current w/c bill is so you aren't consciously undercutting either

[Sarah Sarill]

Hi Guys,

Just logged on and boy have I opened a debate on 'Cowboys' eh !!

Perhaps I used the wrong word to describe these 'companies' but the definition is very specific.  These guys really are rogues - they turn up, may or may not do the job at all or frequently below standard of respectible w/c.  I have many stories of them taking payment for months in advance and not ever turning up, scratching the glass with the metal on the blades, breaking potted plants, no insurance (when a new client asked to claim for a damaged conservatory window, vans with no tax.

Yes david they also have vans and printed t-shirts so they dont look like 'cowboys'. My opinion is based ONLY on their ability to do a fair job.  I have no snobbery about using a sponge, a wooden ladder or fairy washing up liquid after all I have used these for over 7 years myself and would not judge anybody of their equiptment (or lack of funds to buy expensive ones). I do however agree with you on one point that id matters not how long you have been w/c but how good you are at it - like you I feel I am qualities of the most reliable, courteous and honest w/c in my area - and will continue to build my business on these points.  Dai & Gaz clearly know a few of these and know where I'm coming from on this point !!

But going back to my original question before we got into a debate about 'cowboys' have you any samples of letters/flyers specifically for commercial - perhaps making the main thread the new legislation on ladders as an enticement.

As usual your comments have been great - cheers guys.

[Moderator David@stives]

sarril
sorry for high jacking your thread ,we went adrift a bit didnt we
chears
dave

[poleman]

have you any samples of letters/flyers specifically for commercial - perhaps making the main thread the new legislation on ladders as an enticement.

If you are using a window cleaner or are considring employing one, you must ensure they are compliant with the EU Directive. As you will be aware, every business has a legal obligation to ensure that contractors working on premises are following Health & Safety regulations. Failure to fllow this obligation could leave you liable to prosecution by the Health & Safety Executive.

As a potential & valued customer, we wish to give you peace of mind concering these issues. Smart Cleaning has invested many thousands of pounds in a ladderless window cleaning system; this enables our operators to work safely from ground level, which makes us compliant with the WORKING AT HEIGHT DIRECTIVE

Hope this helps your business my fee is in the post