[Pristine Clean]

Hi lads,

We generally concentrate on office cleaning as our main business. However we have built into this several packages i.e. carpet cleaning and have invested considerable amounts with this and is going well. The same is with Window cleaning we have traditional (Still my favourite) and WFP.

We have a few contracts that require large glass partitions and general windows of upto 18 feet to be cleaned internally. It was taking a fair amount of time to do as they are in corporate offices and showrroms so you had to be extra careful.

The other day we decided to go and purchase the dragonfly has a 20 feet pole and Vikan ergoclean. With extra pads cost around £735 mark.

We used them, as with all new things it takes time to get used to using them. Well my thoughts are they are extremely good.

Saves time, saves us mopping the floors. Fantastic results. However inside the Vikan you get a small plastic bottle... . Does this really add value?

The dragonfly if you dont have one take a look. You also get a plastic bottle, but you do actually require this as the hose runs from it. The hose itself is well, well the cheapest part of it. The hose is flimsy, very cheaply made. My mistake the hose does go inside the pole. I didnt think it did at first.. Set of instructions is I would say poor(If you are not technically minded) and is just printed on A4 paper.

Now the idea is great and they work. But my real question is this... the build quality on some parts are not that great and yet the equipment costs a fortune, at least that is how it appears. Are they really worth the money and are we lead like idiots. Its not just window cleaning equipment, its seems to be any equipment in the cleaning industry including carpet cleaning machines.

What are you thoughts are we paying for over priced equipment that in reality costs less then half the price?

Dave

 

[Darranvps]

Hi Dave,
Having bought carbon fibre poles in the past - Directly from the manufacturer in Finland, you would be very surprised to find out how cheap they are. They only supply the telescopic poles, no brushes etc, but they are only a few pounds apiece. They only supply container loads as they are a manufacturer not a sales distributor.

From the look of many of the WFP equipment manufacturers/suppliers - they seem to buy a lot of the components directly from Dual Pumps, etc - who supply pumps as the name would suggest, as well as many other things such as frames for pressure washers etc - some of which are adapted to portable trolleys etc. Once again supplied quite cheaply.

As you are aware, all companies need to make a profit, the bigger the better - and nothing wrong with that. But as you mention, most of the equipment sold/supplied to us, are very expensive and probably not as good quality as they should/could be.

The dragonfly you mention, does appear to be very good, however there is something else on the market, the clean pole system - http://www.baudoin.nl/content_en/pag3_01.php not sure how it compares to the dragonfly, and not sure where you can buy one from locally, but somebody on this forum will know, I am sure.

I suppose as time goes on, the quality of the kit on offer will get better and better.

[Jack Wallace]

I have been looking at the dragonfly but also felt the price was much too high for what it is, It is nothing special, I assume the very high price is to cover development costs and will in time come down just like everything else.
You don’t say how many extra pads you bought but I can only assume it must have been a lot to get the price up as high as £735, I have found a 20' kit for around £582 inc vat.
I will stick to a pole with a squeegee for now.
Out of interest. Has anyone else tried them? What do you think?

[Pristine Clean]

I have been looking at the dragonfly but also felt the price was much too high for what it is, It is nothing special, I assume the very high price is to cover development costs and will in time come down just like everything else.
You don’t say how many extra pads you bought but I can only assume it must have been a lot to get the price up as high as £735, I have found a 20' kit for around £582 inc vat.
I will stick to a pole with a squeegee for now.
Out of interest. Has anyone else tried them? What do you think?

Dont forget I purchased the Vikan as well. That was £60

I only purchase 6 extra pads. - the price includes VAT as well, not a problem as we get that back.

[Ian W]

Sure, they are well overpriced for what they are. I took a look at the Dragonfly at Windex. I could get the components for a comparable version for about £200. It would do the same job.

The version I made cost me about £90 and used a specialised small pressurised container that did exactly the same job as a pump/battery set up.  Looked even more pro than the Dragonfly in my opinion.

But I have to diy these things and am not making a profit. Add a couple of hours labour into the equation and profit margin on top, I can see how these things reach the silly prices we pay.

[Pristine Clean]

As for this

http://www.baudoin.nl/content_en/pag3_01.php As for this compared to the dragonfly, I would say its almost identical. Same idea. Except I believe the dragonfly has a longer pole.

[Darranvps]

As for this

http://www.baudoin.nl/content_en/pag3_01.php As for this compared to the dragonfly, I would say its almost identical. Same idea. Except I believe the dragonfly has a longer pole.

I think Groves window cleaners has one, perhaps one of them could let us know how good/bad it is.

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

Got to agree with Ian W on this one.Sounds like I`ve done more or less
The same as Ian `knocking up my own`.
Mind you,what was on display at Windex sure looked impressive,there again
They need to be,the price they are.
Ya need plenty of pads etc,otherwise the glass dries `hazy`.
Put some drop cloth/painters dust sheets down to save mopping up after
`trad`squeegging.
I suppose using that system as opposed to `swinging your squeegee`makes
A change though.


Lewis  Doubtfire

[Ian W]

From memory, the Baudoin system is about double the cost of the Dragonfly. It uses a specially built carbon fibre modular pole. Looked impressive when I saw it in action, but way out of my price league. 

[Ste M]

I always find it a touchy subject with the price of equipment, we want the best equipment to make our job the best and obviously the cheapest for us so we can make more money.

The problem with this is that people may start buyin the equipment themselves if it becomes cheap enough, or more to the point you will find more and more wc's popping up everywhere and basically claiming to be pro cleaners as they have all the equipment.

People on here who diy there own equipment an tools in my opinion are brilliant as they are using there knowledge of the business to keep there costs down whilst still offering a proffessional service to the customer and charging a proffessional rate for it

[Pristine Clean]

Hi Ewan,

Yes I see the valid point. I am not saying that they should not make a profit. Of course they should thats the idea of business - Profit. Thats certainly the reason I started many years ago. And we have gone from strength to strength.

I am not great at explaining things.. its not meant to be an argumentive topic or offend anyone. I just feel that say for example carpet cleaning machine. they are several 1000's for a so called quality one. The same for a WFP System - Ours cost several 1000's, so did the Carpet cleaner.

Now they suppliers now unless we have these we are not able to offer certain services.. So they have you by the short n curlys. Dont buy it, dont offer the service.

You mention about what we charge or anyone for that matter.../ but buying equipment is an investment in a companies future. Or at least thats the way its perceived. So I for example have to calculate how many inside jobs I have to do, to get back £735.00 pounds, just for the cost of the equipment.

We all get over heads, At different rates. That still does not mean that its not very expensive for what it actually is. Plasic, a small pump, motor and a hose.

And like Rhino says, if you buy in bulk you get a large discount... which probably put the cost of the actual equipment down even further as we genberally buy from a supplier the odd item not several hundred.

And don't forget that I was just asking a question..Do other people and companies think the equipment is over priced. Thats erquipment in general. Not just WFP.

And in the past, we have purchased sone cheap equipment and top of the range equipment. To be honest, its now as though you are just buying a brand... not actually a quality product.

Some companies say we have done market research and we dont think its over priced. But what they have not done is actually said to the "Buyer" thats us how much it actually costs them to produce the equipment. Most of which is mass produced and in some instances already designed for an alternative use, the box, pipes etc were already in circulation for a totaly different reason so the manufacturing costs should not be that high. But not in every case.



Dave

[M Henderson]

I'm interested to know what kind of quality result is acheived.

At the end of the day it just seems to be a spay and a cloth at the business end of the pole. I wouldn't dream of using a cloth and spray except for Georgian windows (and even then I'd rather use a small squeegee)

Maybe for those glass balestrades in shopping center, you know those galleries upstairs, the external part - Could be useful in that situation - using a squegee is risky there because any drips could run down the walls and it's out of reach to catch them.

[Pristine Clean]

The results,

That we are achieving are spectacular.

I think this is down to the cloth itself, its microfibre, but its seems to be a SPECIAL TYPE / CERTAIN TYPE of microfibre. I could be wrong. It feels different.

Very pleased it works.

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

There ya go,I was gonna agree entirely with M Henderson here.
I use my own micro fiber on a `PoundStrecher`floor mopper.
Looks like I`m wrong though.
Pristine,how dirty was the glass would you say before cleaning?
I`ve heard those DragonFly cloths are a special type.
Once again,they need to be,they are expensive enough !


Lewis  Doubtfire

[Pristine Clean]

The glass was obviously internal.

And you can't clean very dirty glass - well not unless you want to use more and more cloths. If they are extremely dirty then you will need to squeegee off first.

We did the windows that had not been done for about 9 months possibly more.

The only thing we did prior was to cleaning the glass with the dragon fly was remove all the cobwebs and clean the frames first. We did not touch the glass.

Results - Amazing. Amount of cloths we got through - errr - don't ask! But hey it worked which is what is important.

The cloths that we used will get washed, and then you can re-use about 500 times. - so marketing says.
But overall im impressed. But not at what it costs considering in its a

40 psi pimp - £55

Plastic bottle £2

Pole £35 - cant be that much as they buy in bulk

bATTERY - CHARGER £50

bELT £3.00

ODD BITS £10.00

cOST £212

I dont think I am wrong, and to be honest I think it cost alot less then that. For the actual item. I know they have marketing and other costs to factor in. But overall its a high margin.

Still a good no fantastic tool.

Oh I will also add that I did not use pure water. We used a quality glass cleaner. Athough we use WFP alot, Im not over sold on the hype of pure water. - Good marketing though. And if you have invested £1000's like we have. Then you have to use it, beleive it. Even if its not true right.

[jouk45]

vikan head with misting nozzle £42

here it is on a harris pole

harris pole £15  at B@Q
 from gardiners never pump waist pump around £36 DELIVERED

or a small gardinen pressure pump

also pads from gardiners to

badger air tubing around £12
so lets say £150 all in, this is diy at its best, and looks more professional than a lot i have seen,

[Ian W]

In all honesty, I have got similar results to these systems with a cloth clamped to a cut down applicator handle. Damp the cloth on one side with a spray bottle, clean the window with the damp side and buff with the dry side. Alternatively, spray the window with a fine mist and do the same as above. Costs less than a tenner for a handle and clamps.

These systems make it easier / quicker on larger jobs, but for a small job I can get the job done before I could set up the larger system.

The cost is all relative to what you are trying to achieve. But paying out for a commercially built system is no guarantee of quality or longevity.

[Pristine Clean]

jouk

I have to say that is fantastic.

Why dont you seriously design it. And market it. I am sure people would buy it. I certainly would have given it a go if it was cheaper than what I have just paid.

Dave

[jouk45]

non of this is my design, this is all stuff ready available to buy  order them all individualy put them together, hey presto, an indoor pole, if i had not gone to the windex show, i would never had known this stuff was available, me and ianw found that out, as we where  their together,

[trevor perry]

hi jouk
  where did you get the mist nozzle and metal attachment to fit to the plastic goosneck from, that looks very good.