[Peter Fogwill]

Sean,

The refund is more than £2, and we do not suggest that spent filters should be sent back to us.

You are wrong about the re-fill ability of our filters.

You are wrong about the refund value.

You are wrong about the means of return.

You are wrong about the meaning of the NFMWGC's press release.

You are wrong about the "blank faces" at the meeting that took place at Summerfield House on 3rd Dec 2003.

You are wrong about the validity of our product testing.

regards

Reuben

Looks like poor Sean cannot get anything right.

Peter

[Majestic]

Reuben,
Did OTT not do a crash test ,  

[Reuben_Reynolds]

Yes,

OTT did undertake a crash test program at Thatcham to FMVSS-208 standard.

Regards

Reuben

[Majestic]

Reuben,
Just had a look on your web site , saw the saftey video about crash testing  

[pdhanson]

If colour change resin is more expensive than normal resin, couldn't you have just a small (say 3 inch) section with the colour change resin, seperate from the ordinary resin to use as an 'indicator'?

then when the coloured resin changed, you would know to replace all of it?

Or am I missing something obvious?

By the way, does anyone know where its possible to get the two types of resin seperately? (not "mixed bed"?)

Silly

[g_griffin]

This is great!

I haven`t a clue what you`re on about  

But it`s great  

            Gerry.

[sham33]

I love this thread, i check it every day always brings a smile to my face  

[Pdh]

this should be on tv ,kilroy,trisha etc ,springer.this makes good reading,and long may it carry on.im learning alot about these systems,just in time for when i take delivery on one.im just keepin it simple .and face the facts when i start using

[The_Fed_Man]

God, I turn my back and what's going on on here?

We do waterfed work 5 days a week.   I find the colour change cartridges (and also the cartridge filters) much easier to use than storing bags of resin, messy filling and emptying and wondering what to do with the waste. (don't put it down the drain!)

This is all downtime, even it's it's your own spare time which could be spent doing something more enjoyable.  I just return them to the supplier when I'm up there.  Simple is best and the cost is not that much extra over the period of filter changes.

The meeting on Dec 3rd was very productive and should be the start of something positive for the industry.

Dom, whatever happened to the old adage of a professional not slating the competition?

[jonesy5]

you better ask alex ferguson, or asda maybe safeway or honda, or for that matter any company, competion is good for all of us,  mmmmm maybe set up another window cleaning federation.........  is that possible

[The_Fed_Man]

Dom,

I guess I'm changing cartridges every 2 months or so, the last one has gone 3 months, probably due to better psi in the winter months, I think.

For me it's a bit like when we did office cleaning, we started off buying large bottles and manually decanting down to smaller containers.  Once established, we just bought the smaller containers ready to use in the first place and costed them in to the job for ease of use.  

Interesting your point on non-hazardous waste, I know you come from a water purification background. I'm not sure I feel comfortable putting them out with the trash or taking them down the tip, is this what you recommend your users do?  Is there any documentation to back this up?

[Reuben_Reynolds]

Sean,

1)I use your name out of professional courtesy.
2)Our filters are not disposable.
3)We do not suggest that customers post their spent filters back to us because there are more economical ways for them to be returned. And we do not suggest that they be placed in the bin.
4)We do not recommend the dumping of spent resin because said spent resin contains high levels of otherwise trace elements that are harmful to the environment if not disposed of properly.
5)We used to use the same DI methodology that you currently use, if it was the best solution for this particular application then we’d still be doing it!
6)Our customers like the colour change principle, that’s why they choose it.
7)Did anyone receive Sean’s bottle of Scotch? I don’t hold out much hope for Lunch at the Savoy so I won’t bother to educate you about the dumping of commercial waste in dustbins!

Regards

Reuben

[Reuben_Reynolds]

Any Readers
I refer the above gentleman to the press release from the NFMWGC;
if you want to see a copy of the press release from the official trade organisation that represents your interests, regarding the validity of "paid for" crash testing and its relative importance when selecting which manufacturer to deal with, please contact the NFMWGC direct or ask the above gentleman to post it verbatum on this site, to save you time. If any helpful readers want to do the same....
Again, for the record and hopefully the last time.... as mentioned on several ocassions, I can not discuss crash testing on this forum.  
Dom

Sean, only because you asked;

The Fed’s press release refers to a number of legal documents, principally regulation 100 of the Road Vehicle (construction & Use) Regulations. It states; Loads must be secured so as not to cause a DANGER to persons in, on or outside of the vehicle.

It is true that no-where in the legislation does it specifically say that manufacturers of vehicle mounted water treatment systems must carry out crash testing in order to prove compliance with the above legislation. However, by carrying out such a test a manufacturer can demonstrate to their customers that their equipment does not pose a Danger to themselves or their employees in the even of even a minor accident at just 30mph, or even heavy braking, and so does comply with regulation 100.

Although the Road Traffic Act does not currently say that crash testing is mandatory, other legislation does provide for the need for manufacturers to undertake appropriate product testing. At Ionic Systems we believe that Crash Testing is appropriate for our products and even if it were not then we believe that we have a moral obligation to ensure the safety of our customers.

You suggested that I answer your question and I have, if you believe that the Federation’s press release means that your company does not have to undertake crash testing. Please can you answer my earlier question that was;

If not by crash testing how should a manufacturer of vehicle mounted water tanks demonstrate that his equipment is safe and complies with regulation 100 above?

Regards

Reuben

[The_Fed_Man]

My view point as an end user.

If I was choosing between two similar Pure Water systems and one had been crash tested by a recognised body in the motor industry, the tested system would definitely get my money, as I would view this as an additional benefit that would give me piece of mind with my employees. Leglislation does not currently exist to say that it's necessary, but that's not to say that it won't in the future.

Regardless of the right way or wrong way as things stand at present, it shows the manufacurer is concerned with the safety of it's customers and I think IONIC SYSTEMS should be applauded for making the first move at considerable investment cost to them.  If I was a Competitor I would seek to get in on this as well.  From a Sales point of view it may seem to give them an unfair advantage in the marketplace but aren't Unique Selling Points what sales are all about?

[The_Fed_Man]

Dom,

Crash Testing was mentioned in Reubens reply immediately previous to mine and also by you yesteday to which Reuben was replying.  I understand the restrictions on you both, I was giving my opinion to other readers as an end user.

Your point about the colour change refills being Trade Waste, if the resin isn't in your opinion, why is the whole unit? Because of the plastic cannister?  Is plastic now Trade Waste?

[The_Fed_Man]

Dom,

I am concerned about environmental issues and would like your answer.  As a pole user can you tell me, if resin isn't Trade Waste, why are the plastic cannisters?

[Reuben_Reynolds]

Any Readers
I refer the above gentleman to the press release from the NFMWGC;
if you want to see a copy of the press release from the official trade organisation that represents your interests, regarding the validity of "paid for" crash testing and its relative importance when selecting which manufacturer to deal with, please contact the NFMWGC direct or ask the above gentleman to post it verbatum on this site, to save you time. If any helpful readers want to do the same....
Again, for the record and hopefully the last time.... as mentioned on several ocassions, I can not discuss crash testing on this forum.  
Dom

Sean,

If you keep on bringing up the subject and ask for comment then I will oblige you. In any event I did not ask you to comment about crash testing, I asked for your comment about any alternative that you may suggest.

Regarding waste disposal you said; "With regard to your point of what to do with the waste resin, it is inert, non-hazardous petroleum based resin. As a non hazardous waste, it is classed as low volume general refuse, bin as normal".

You're the guy that says put it in the bin. We're the guys that did speak to the Environmental Health Officer which is why we encourage our customers to return spent resin filters so that we can dispose of their trade waste properly. Yes this does cost money, but by doing it the way we do we can limit the potential of a huge fine if you're caught dumping trade waste in the bin as you suggest!

What was it you said "get real".

regards

Reuben

[Reuben_Reynolds]

"MartinGiven your and my position within the industry, may I recommend we continue our dialogue outside of this forum where vested interests best lie?
Dom"

Perhaps you can explain what you mean by this comment. Are you suggesting that your company has vested interests in the NFMWGC?

regards

Reuben

[The_Fed_Man]

Dom,

It was a simple question, I am sure other readers are just as interested in the answer as I am.

As you have not answered my question I am now assuming there is no difference between resin in a plastic cannister or on its own, unless you can show me to the contrary.

This is something I am concerned about. Why shouldn't that be on this forum?

[Peter Fogwill]

I think what it means is, I have messed up again and I will not answer any more questions on that subject.

Peter